IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-hegde-lsr-asla-any-app-00.txt

"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com> Sat, 21 August 2021 14:49 UTC

Return-Path: <ginsberg@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8433A127F for <lsr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 21 Aug 2021 07:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.595
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=W73VyKNp; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=S/HqYrt1
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id puZGBQOx1QxR for <lsr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 21 Aug 2021 07:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 551263A126D for <lsr@ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Aug 2021 07:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11044; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1629557390; x=1630766990; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=xwpqCnNuL9tx5wA9dl/rtLgX8fAVpptkTDdMSshcGUE=; b=W73VyKNpcrTJkeVgieToyF3xzGcHBAvr9EdMJqQi1Ypbz/dVxGrz7dtu 17AOYS7VUMUSHv84XxEV+VQG9meeURxF8JFEFJD12eOkMGdgi6EYIYXQp wXn8z0vyIX08hpT/kIE7B8/k1F3TuYPcDAkMN4932sqZeRL7HuCaLFKaZ 8=;
IronPort-PHdr: A9a23:McTddxE7+NR4t75VOraA051Gfj4Y04WdBeZdwoAukKBTceKl8oixdEDc5PA4iljPUM2b7v9fkOPZvujmXnBI+peOtn0OMfkuHx8IgMkbhUosVciCD0CoNvfxfTE5WsJPSAwt83SyK0MAHsH4ahXbqWGz6jhHHBL5OEJ1K+35F5SUgd6w0rW5+obYZENDgz/uCY4=
IronPort-HdrOrdr: A9a23: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
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DjAADIESFh/5tdJa1aHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQGCBwUBAQsBgSIwIy4Hd1o3MYRHg0gDhTmIBAOMDYkvhQOBLoElA1QDCAEBAQ0BAUEEAQGEZgIXgiECJTYHDgECBAEBARIBAQUBAQECAQYEgREThWgNhkIBAQEBAxIRChMBATUCAQ8CAQYCEQQBASsCAgIwHQgCBA4FCBqCUIF+VwMvAYwtjzQBgToCih96gTGBAYIHAQEGBASFChiCNAmBOgGCfYQOAQGGZyccgg2BFUOCYj6ENRGDFTaCLoRcT3pDYEgcTzoHJJF+gxGIWo1DkieDKp5wEqZ4tkWEcAIEAgQFAg4BAQaBaA4mgVlwFYMkUBkPjiCDcopeczgCAwMBCgEBAwmHVIJGAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.84,340,1620691200"; d="scan'208,217";a="897563231"
Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 21 Aug 2021 14:49:48 +0000
Received: from mail.cisco.com (xbe-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.16]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 17LEnmDF007773 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:49:48 GMT
Received: from xfe-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.227.249) by xbe-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15; Sat, 21 Aug 2021 09:49:48 -0500
Received: from xfe-rtp-004.cisco.com (64.101.210.234) by xfe-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.227.249) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15; Sat, 21 Aug 2021 09:49:48 -0500
Received: from NAM11-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (64.101.32.56) by xfe-rtp-004.cisco.com (64.101.210.234) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 21 Aug 2021 10:49:47 -0400
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=MHxMpTv5zYeWhQVoBx0Ip7YENH8r4v2o2EUxMsIlTQtWw/wJtbZL+oZDuLnHgsgNO658TD3uDZ4GQgh5w8lpBJkw60wtE74e8WE0qbM2iapwTqaM+J8K8kBMuSEhQML+f0TD0MSywFmrjBaFUWfra/+OM/Imp7qbKEqlQBcjRSD5IjBX+hukA5ZN/n8azsAum4rb0f04ljMgphwjIKyu60DEhpGRtuFIiQDSe8lJFvv5UsFGpJ7fpeqN2bXWnTnGdG3OMjTr530AlDG4j3kShqN4N2IKDUaXPlv/BQ4vTZQzMyfiNkbxQ4pTdg7Or0GmSUlgB8b46FvFkr0rIw1/ig==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=xwpqCnNuL9tx5wA9dl/rtLgX8fAVpptkTDdMSshcGUE=; b=KARqT9OawuANLB2VWmR9+sI078375RGRxdOpwN2F71CvgcSDqGu1jpZWaifXo10jLFSlVESpusCnCyhsmybyLRZ+vXsFwEeLQHwSoxJS5DMvPCPn3Gpt7N7Em8/iG8ubp82d11+JN0jhrRWoxMFc90XKYjigKJNS12AI7l7j3z43VIqFRzwayCSIHYD4MfnedxjitVK+txeSh6dfnPkBZ6jGJ54yPane5XchdeSgRY+TMlBXnLdMNDcUEF25eCiftvcotVunhSyXb+mC/Ssy1fK+9WESL0bKeNULJC7Hz/vejVmKuWVAAjsJz2X+qAwcMcaAeSjRL8jREZYM+mQmIg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=xwpqCnNuL9tx5wA9dl/rtLgX8fAVpptkTDdMSshcGUE=; b=S/HqYrt12r1PkEq5oPjWNYTwqkawhk5bAtGhUcSkXSVNEinodJsutM7wEJJ+vGCh4EZHiBtq2dttwjrCAHDlnYvbtRHsE4hDZ5lhmAfy2jzrvWrhxVrcm/nhgAc1dT7f+vWFmcGHshLMvScYevaqGxub+HEVHP4Dtw3pePk/uhQ=
Received: from BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:1c1::14) by SJ0PR11MB5152.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:2ae::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4436.19; Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:49:46 +0000
Received: from BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39eb:3b2c:8e7f:7c40]) by BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39eb:3b2c:8e7f:7c40%6]) with mapi id 15.20.4436.022; Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:49:46 +0000
From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
CC: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-hegde-lsr-asla-any-app-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHXlXPDGkfLja6XfUq1l41eKDod0Kt7vQ3ggADVqaCAAEZIgIAALSuwgAAOEgCAAACRMIAAoaIAgABT16A=
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:49:46 +0000
Message-ID: <BY5PR11MB433712C0E800D0F65F2C8B35C1C29@BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <162943024158.25012.15758140620996305842@ietfa.amsl.com> <BL0PR05MB53167201E607E5922DECA320AEC19@BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <BY5PR11MB4337B66A6C77DB8FFF31DE57C1C19@BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <CAOj+MMEtOfUmGw95YownrXZ3fx_V74bWWeOqukX01j5nTM6fFg@mail.gmail.com> <BY5PR11MB4337836ED3EA8AFEB7115E07C1C19@BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <CAOj+MMGn=6s67s93mx-X59j_HWwZNE=L3FyP=dG=omfZy8q67w@mail.gmail.com> <BY5PR11MB43375E493D07444E8EFE63A0C1C29@BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <CAOj+MMEBC6oH3KWY1U0qp13d4E06Tyd14x7=fc=g7suvmkgbZw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOj+MMEBC6oH3KWY1U0qp13d4E06Tyd14x7=fc=g7suvmkgbZw@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: raszuk.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;raszuk.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b7846bb3-f99b-469b-5360-08d964b2eb94
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR11MB5152:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <SJ0PR11MB51529E06FA53967CF9094EC5C1C29@SJ0PR11MB5152.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6430;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: O2nVaNZUietOQNfn1A3OLL1MWSg4K+i7b7lAYLAzk5P1pjRdFWUR0tAmbQ+7crDKCWvDCO0QDX5jB8GWR9HVtxaRX8BZoc+hYYF1WspTJFhhyiQ25MBpewMIGImdINxPwY8q1lk0P5RBW1lPRS88pjLS2E+mvham2OVu/AhVuQIgDH6KMKmJk9dBrmScAktCT/6MH//C+hQqN05wiFsOj37uzq+fS/6TdOG6tqFBzU0l/s26QjLYMY+RgHzEHX/UsWqz8Y5Xj4N1AEuUoroBcVJtVjkLFfrpcNn5nhzIS87504LEnoBMCn4mP2og6mMceXiSVUKMfOmYv3yYdmhP71KkrXvkZ52uzFQZ4F/J4z6JtxXLWgTnq90iKVmM6dA6dnMEleHOxYAqbV/8+smjxZbRKRTWqOY56h9sB/9XzhifG5EF97HjM6QvQAxkRuGW4snaQ3TprPxRY+jVEb7q8SA7n+3Ra8GPvcj1w5DtzY9UWkMd5oAn6jkM7jPiOgDVGHKjDlS/HgJCIbXhCgptOuEuA0bQkIQX8bV7++nD1a8Pt4k/re08FuVAP3SSbk1vOcJuy6Gqz0iZLAt8ZJhg3XfnIVxJzPrKHGrTIYVQ649MSBPowVSpz+lUR53PtXkn7DvMQS0bcOPq6t/Uput9rzE/zudfsPV8SH7kUex/m4OF4qqtJ+suHTbRyn/M6AYqk/cKHoypsPFHhmEp4wvySQ==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(376002)(366004)(396003)(136003)(346002)(39860400002)(6916009)(8676002)(186003)(66476007)(7696005)(4326008)(38070700005)(52536014)(6506007)(53546011)(55016002)(9686003)(478600001)(66946007)(86362001)(76116006)(5660300002)(122000001)(54906003)(38100700002)(316002)(33656002)(66446008)(15650500001)(71200400001)(66556008)(64756008)(83380400001)(8936002)(2906002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BY5PR11MB433712C0E800D0F65F2C8B35C1C29BY5PR11MB4337namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b7846bb3-f99b-469b-5360-08d964b2eb94
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Aug 2021 14:49:46.7569 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: JHDf6Xvx1ecNGNaYQu68MnJaNTX3jyKhcQkjPfK3EslWbxX1Rk3aUDdGoJUPBbU3hZjzhd/3gsRgrgj/30ZrCQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR11MB5152
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.16, xbe-rcd-001.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/Or3lqXyNvE2UNckIwTLo-GaUqpo>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-hegde-lsr-asla-any-app-00.txt
X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group <lsr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/lsr>, <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/lsr/>
List-Post: <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr>, <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:50:10 -0000

Robert -

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 2:41 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-hegde-lsr-asla-any-app-00.txt


But the entire point of A-bit is that you are doing this exercise to make sure your routers understand A-bit only one time.
[LES:] This does not mean that you can introduce support for a new application (call it “bit N”) w/o upgrading your routers simply because you already have A-bit support. I hope that is obvious. 😊

I beg to differ.
[LES:] Your statement suggests (and I am certain you do not mean to do so) that if only we had the foresight to define the A-bit in RFC 8919/8920 that we could have introduced support for Flex-Algo without writing any new code at all. 😊

We are talking here about a NEW APPLICATION. The only existing example we have today (post RFC 8919/8920) is Flex-Algo – but given time I expect some other application will come along. What that will be and what kinds of calculations/attributes it might require is something we do not currently know. The syntax used to advertise link attributes does not magically allow new applications to be supported without adding new code to the nodes.

   Les

In my books you can create new interesting topologies simply by selecting existing existing metrics on subset of links. And still say run Dijkstra on it.

In your view - new application MUST use new metric which is something I fundamentally disagree with.


 My original point was simply  that the statement about “backwards compatibility” regarding A-bit isn’t accurate. Good that we now agree on that.

That is correct IMO.

Thx,
R.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email