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Re: [MMUSIC] Partial Offer/Partial Answer draft - MIME type value

Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Sun, 20 October 2013 20:42 UTC

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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org>
Thread-Topic: VS: [MMUSIC] Partial Offer/Partial Answer draft - MIME type value
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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:42:13 +0000
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Cc: mmusic <mmusic@ietf.org>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Partial Offer/Partial Answer draft - MIME type value
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Hi Emil,

I am not suggesting that things don't work.

I am saying that we need to be very sure that there isn't a risk for ambiguous situations, where different endpoints may end up having different "understandings" of the ICE state.

Regards,

Christer

Lähettäjä: Emil Ivov [mailto:emcho@jitsi.org]
Lähetetty: 20. lokakuuta 2013 23:19
Vastaanottaja: Christer Holmberg
Kopio: Paul Kyzivat; mmusic; Adam Roach
Aihe: Re: VS: [MMUSIC] Partial Offer/Partial Answer draft - MIME type value


Christer, "I tried to explain" to you that what you are saying has been addressed and cannot happen. If you believe that there is a specific situation that is still possible and is a problem, then please describe that rather than continuing to suggest that things don't work without any valid arguments whatsoever.

--sent from my mobile
On 20 Oct 2013 21:50, "Christer Holmberg" <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com<mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>> wrote:

Hi,

>> Example:
>>
>> 1. Alice sends an SDP Offer to Bob.
>>
>> 2. Bob sends the SDP Answer to Alice, with candidates A, B and C.
>>
>> 3. After that, Bob sends, using trickle ICE, candidates D and E to Alice.
>>
>> If Alice receives the SDP Answer first, and then the trickle ICE request, she will assume that Bob first provided candidates A, B and C (in the SDP Answer), and then added D and E (in the trickle ICE request).
>>
>> If Alice receives the trickle ICE request first, and then the SDP Answer
>
> Don't do that then.
>
> It's been pretty clear from the start that any session *modification* mechanism that does not also contain the full session state completely falls apart in the face of unordered delivery. This is a fundamental information problem, and you aren't going to write rules that somehow cause it not to be true.
>
> We haven't yet tackled how to send trickle ICE in SIP, much less partial offers and partial answers. When we do, the only way it's going to have any chance of working at all is by requiring ordered delivery.

I totally agree, and my opinion (which I tried to explain to Emil) is that it applies also to candidates.

Regards,

Christer

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