Re: [Moq] Agenda topics for side meeting on Tuesday

[Suhas Nandakumar <[e-mail]>]

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 10:11 AM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi, Ian,
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:38 AM Ian Swett <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've looked at the following uses cases fairly closely for QUIC in the
>> past.
>>
>>    - Live Video Ingestion - Existing protocols don't fully meet our
>>    needs (ie: performance vs reliability, standardization, etc), and this is
>>    becoming a real problem.
>>    - Live Video Delivery - Currently we're pushing the edge of what HTTP
>>    can do efficiently, including some non-standard extensions.  This is also
>>    not optimized for QUIC or HTTP/3, which could improve performance.
>>    - WebRTC over QUIC, ie: RTP over QUIC + Datachannels over QUIC -
>>    There could be a number of benefits of WebRTC over QUIC.  A number of
>>    people who were interested in this are now focused on WebTransport, but
>>    there's still the matter of what you send over WebTransport, so I think
>>    there's some work to be done in addition to finishing WebTransport.
>>
>>
> Thanks for this - it's very helpful, and it will definitely be on the list
> for tomorrow's meeting.
>
>
>> As with QUIC, I see we have a number of different working groups
>> different parts or applications could land in.  I worry that could cause
>> fragmentation if each sub-domain solves their problem without collaborating
>> closely with others.  I'm not sure if a new WG(ie: QUIC-style) is necessary
>> here, but I do think caution should be taken to ensure we don't reinvent
>> the wheel 3+ different ways.
>>
>
> Yes, exactly. It's sad when three people working in isolation solve a
> similar problem in three different ways that have to be implemented three
> times, but it's doubly sad when they all show up in QUIC either asking for
> advice on three similar solutions, or even proposing three similar but
> incompatible extensions! 😈
>

One common theme that might needs addressing is : what sort of API knobs
can be exposed by transport (QUIC) to help apps know about losses/recovery
and influence the choice of congestion control . If some aspects of this
can be done in a standard way, it would definitely help
streaming/interactive use-cases.

Best,
>
> Spencer, who should be apologizing to Lucas for even thinking such a
> thing!
>
>
>>
>> Thanks, Ian
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 7:13 AM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> So, three things I should say before the Tuesday side meeting.
>>>
>>> First - this side meeting will be under Notewell, because it's focused
>>> on input to the IETF.
>>>
>>> Second - I'm planning to record the session, just so I can verify what
>>> we said, so that I can produce decent minutes. If anyone objects, please
>>> also volunteer to take excellent notes!
>>>
>>> Third - James and I are most familiar with the RTP over QUIC proposals,
>>> but we recognize that there will be commonalities between various
>>> proposals, so  we're perfectly happy to talk about other use cases and
>>> requirement sets. So, letting us know what you're thinking about, as
>>> requested below, will be super useful.
>>>
>>> Please Do The Right Thing.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Spencer
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 12:36 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
>>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear MOQ fans,
>>>>
>>>> It's time to put together an agenda for the Tuesday meeting. I'd like
>>>> for this meeting to be a working session, not a forum for presentations, so
>>>> please keep that in mind.
>>>>
>>>> As a high-order bit, I think we've spent a lot of time thinking about
>>>> use cases here, and I'd like to push down another level, and make sure we
>>>> understand what the work for the IETF (and possibly for the IRTF) is.
>>>>
>>>> I know what the protocol work is for my use cases:
>>>>
>>>>    - Mapping RTP onto QUIC (many options exist, so picking one or more
>>>>    would be helpful) This is squarely in scope for AVTCORE
>>>>    - Mapping RTCP onto QUIC (which may be the same approach as used
>>>>    for RTP, or may include things like using QUIC facilities instead of RTCP
>>>>    facilities, where those QUIC facilities exist).. Again, this is squarely in
>>>>    scope for AVTCORE
>>>>    - SDP description for RTP/RTCP over QUIC. This is squarely in scope
>>>>    for MMUSIC, as soon as we figure out the details in AVTCORE.
>>>>
>>>> What is the IETF/IRTF work for your use cases?
>>>>
>>> --
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>>>
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