Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-based sockets
Pete McCann <mccap@petoni.org> Thu, 09 December 2010 19:04 UTC
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:06:18 -0600
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From: Pete McCann <mccap@petoni.org>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
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Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>, "nbs@ietf.org" <nbs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-based sockets
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Hi, Joe, Thanks for the issue list and the pointers to drafts. I agree that backwards compatibility is an issue, if we are blindly opening connections to previously unknown peers. However, in the pickle packet framework, opening a connection would always be preceded by a DNS lookup for the TXT record at _pickle.host.example.com which, if present, would be an indication that the peer supports the new extensions. So, I think there is little danger of running into the issues you cite. You might say that this is equivalent to defining a new transport, but I think it's important to keep the protocol number 6 because that is what today's middleboxes will pass. -Pete On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote: > > > On 12/8/2010 7:43 PM, Pete McCann wrote: >> >> Hi, Joe, >> >> Thanks - can you elucidate or send a pointer to the issues with >> putting data in the SYN? Are you worried that some middleboxes >> will have problems and drop such packets? > > There was a discussion a few years back on this list on various ways to > extend the space for TCP options, which are most limited in SYNs. > > The general problem is backward compatibility; that data cannot be assumed > to be ignored by endpoints that don't support the option. TCP is required to > ignore unknown options, and when it does, it would start a connection and > interpret the options as data. > > An additional problem is that many implementations simply discard SYN data, > to reduce the amount of state until the connection handshake finishes. > > I'm speaking most specifically of issues with putting options in the SYN > data; there are other problems with putting options in the payload data. > > Further, since this option can't be rejected by a legacy endpoint per se, > the initiator needs to then stop the connection after receiving the SYN-ACK. > Doing so without leaving state on the other end requires a RST, but that has > other potential problems (RST gets lost, other end resends the SYN-ACK), > etc. > > So the key questions are: > - can TCP option space be extended without negatively impacting legacy > implementations, in a way that isn't equivalent to creating a new transport > anyway? > >> I'd be particularly interested if you can point me at some of these >> prior proposals. > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eddy-tcp-loo-03 > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kohler-tcpm-extopt-00 > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-allman-tcpx2-hack-00 > > (if there are others, can others post?) > > Joe >
- [nbs] New draft related to name-based sockets Pete McCann
- [nbs] New draft related to name-based sockets RJ Atkinson
- Re: [nbs] New draft related to name-based sockets Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] New draft related to name-based sockets Javier Ubillos
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Pete McCann
- Re: [nbs] [Int-area] New draft related to name-ba… Joe Touch