Re: [netmod] 'status' statement needed on every node

Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> Wed, 06 September 2017 06:57 UTC

Return-Path: <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89C15132D66 for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 23:57:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C_IyXe3_ozWq for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 23:57:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09B2C1321A5 for <netmod@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 23:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE36F21; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 08:57:25 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de
Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id EAwMzgXEmjsA; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 08:57:25 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 08:57:25 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB5A200E2; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 08:57:25 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de
Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z_O83dOB1AMz; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 08:57:25 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27481200E0; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 08:57:25 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id ECEE64096E25; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 08:57:23 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2017 08:57:23 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: heasley <heas@shrubbery.net>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20170906065723.dnv4xl2mchszcvlo@elstar.local>
Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Mail-Followup-To: heasley <heas@shrubbery.net>, netmod@ietf.org
References: <20170905190151.fizr5dljufbyuyty@elstar.local> <20170906014757.GD31035@shrubbery.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20170906014757.GD31035@shrubbery.net>
User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/bc1xqLMW_uYdFrOG4L2YmDMxtaI>
Subject: Re: [netmod] 'status' statement needed on every node
X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <netmod.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/>
List-Post: <mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2017 06:57:29 -0000

On Wed, Sep 06, 2017 at 01:47:57AM +0000, heasley wrote:
> 
> Isn't this something that is fixed with display (human representation)
> tools?
>

I often work with the original definitions. And if the original
definitions depend on context, I have to do another lookup (whether
this is inside the original definition or some tool generated human
representation does not matter). With the old /foo and /foo-state
approach this was really bad since you had often objects with the same
name and it was often not at all clear whether I have been looking at
the config true or the config false definition without an additional
search operation. Perhaps I could program my favourite editor to
generate explicit config statements and status statements on the fly
but I think we would be better off if readers would not have to
program editors or use special tools to easily understand what a
definition really means.

> > > I still don't know what it means to define hierarchical data and say the
> > > parent is deprecated but not the descendant nodes.
> > 
> > It is odd but can happen anyway. A current augmentation of something
> > that got deprecated likely stays current. I would hope that tools warn
> > if they see this but that's it.
> 
> How is anything ever expunged if parsing tools do not refuse to load
> a module that depends on a deprecated node that it is attempting to
> augment?

Expunged? Deprecating a definition does not expunge anything. Tools
that refuse to load a module that depends on deprecated nodes are in
my view broken. It was one of YANG's design goals to support
augmentations such that definitions and be augmented by independent
organizations. Hence, we must face reality that it is impossible to
determine how many augmentations of a definition are out there and
hence it is impossible to have them all updated at the same time.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>