Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-versioning" drafts
Jürgen Schönwälder <jschoenwaelder@constructor.university> Tue, 13 June 2023 18:23 UTC
Return-Path: <jschoenwae@constructor.university>
X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F03BC15106A for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 11:23:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dmphA1Mgnjys for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 11:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR03-DBA-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dbaeur03on2059.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.104.59]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D925C14CE4D for <netmod@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 11:23:53 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Lz0JAcf0u15Tr7/mJdm+NlzEC/u1jMXyAiukhj2gu3vfl8XZlSV51hm95cEQdGuu8Yf5g5JrQ1OIWMgx+lWZjuWCS5QXz13yh0FUhQ91K0XL/Xk/opdf/KiKla+zJKOT9F05M/n1Tgh0Pfug4hwzJPb/RPQP1QA1ESM+iGS/r1mikxy6rTFcSHCflhPkj3EdOboKXmXiGZNnA1ZEi60TA1uqF7841Xcfe47NTz1dHo1Fw0agK6l62atXj22aS1bPUmvl18eXRzceFBJ7G5gGEoyCGn+AtD93cllXcFjjpWf5ZLH/U9kiPYX6FdnkLoH7Chs4RQbzITip01p7VPurlg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=BL5EySkY2jdi1/p8TWmyiNeHjOC6DdpSyFlgYfsk5CY=; b=h9ey4PySOacKRNY+27hpz2kR35gNQGyfrfyh5W2W4l3Kxgych0YWGrZM6I8CSfbk46YJnpjvS9e5xJblQkSKTw/3PQlsa7iUmePFJz3B9/DLN0ZPrKQ/cytFvGziVMoBL+8S/H0vifJNc8Y3IJBLcNUIlDsV9uwM/ZKuRBK1OwOhUUUTHE/Zk1Y0iSOicfkk/gPHLOpUfNJZDR/O2sEqQI4H4WnaL+NfTf/AXm8i51KYZVNOm2aIeUr8DYkXiRGumMJBjWtSTLZ82WWuBM5fL3uDiSNYIKm7ahFSTZDHQyXl8X5yDmsBz+q5qUoBLlkGAaDprK9vVLqZMAgksvGh5Q==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=constructor.university; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=constructor.university; dkim=pass header.d=constructor.university; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-jacobsuniversity-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=BL5EySkY2jdi1/p8TWmyiNeHjOC6DdpSyFlgYfsk5CY=; b=mLzcQg2tOtoQPqRmWGPdfiahRalfvHXdNT0PouYxOsjtfmtqqWHLOK0Azy//YHfhmgbBrjWguN3r4jLBUvvOu6DPZen1R0KT0SZYFA4g75L6ZBgSyaugaOO7QrfN6nVIpWQZN++8YYCMK4dgO9s5bVykav0Wwz6w9ob38cWwZrA=
Authentication-Results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=constructor.university;
Received: from GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:150:3::6) by DB9P190MB1593.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:10:244::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6455.44; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 18:23:51 +0000
Received: from GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::581b:1ec3:e89b:df50]) by GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::581b:1ec3:e89b:df50%6]) with mapi id 15.20.6455.030; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 18:23:51 +0000
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 20:23:49 +0200
From: Jürgen Schönwälder <jschoenwaelder@constructor.university>
To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <riirwd2gfedo6tyusqu6osj2lmqwh55dphswab6vyyk7nt2alo@wk7fyuiwl3hw>
Reply-To: Jürgen Schönwälder <jschoenwaelder@constructor.university>
Mail-Followup-To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
References: <01000187fd8e0407-84bd7e7b-ede3-43d8-a9b3-5d4d0a915509-000000@email.amazonses.com> <jr5nepvspm3kpoxbv6dpxwi234ggjuthvckeerj2hb3g3qdc6x@4o42ngfbw72f> <BN9PR11MB5371007BA72D6E2D1D0AD7E9B854A@BN9PR11MB5371.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <uyzkchhq6kvggoksec3kmdutrkaajlmaibiptl54lhlg6yryay@6iy7r2xt5mvj> <BN9PR11MB5371D7A3C36644774FAD81C0B855A@BN9PR11MB5371.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In-Reply-To: <BN9PR11MB5371D7A3C36644774FAD81C0B855A@BN9PR11MB5371.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
X-ClientProxiedBy: AM0PR04CA0109.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:55::14) To GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:150:3::6)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: GVXP190MB1991:EE_|DB9P190MB1593:EE_
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: b834236a-fda9-483c-96b9-08db6c3b5646
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: LDxvrEhbg9+u3moSs7N7OLQsdvyEdygaEerxVva8Mf1HNqSXR9dPk4KZsdk/JM38a3PqCvuyfZmcHtOUGs+rqCqB8g0PPS4Uf6U/e/XN/9rcHcFAAWh+SjJqDc9B8y10XzU0jP9zSix1J+mM/ibO0S1YMyJXgrugl2givrNOvlYzBfBKI3eND9g4dNbPKxUbkj978zvW1JJGVnSa9ETNtxL/ObX6RuTl0WthcBZUWQPhE5nxKvgX7PWAU2b7+TlCVNuXMV8lJAVIvZXCNmddzCCe2vkiTgxVIxVFB7h4fuivc6GZrawMglm7z0+Pjz0BUeTFcobxFeynigrdPCEeRE4manLTIb8aOKvUhZ3c7U/tClwAb83YhU9uNpFT3e4dQDRolK57pA6EjnWkyVs3fXChEcTjMacCNP/IRhV8zjsBh6II5AvO5GLR5Zuv92eJ8DeguyXngqN0+A3VCXYGB7D2f+z+kd0dG7W+KlBLHelSGQzODTnPTweCBcaqAPVVz/khR4JVUqw56HwHfQKG5FwK4t2vtSQJvIl/lpAcittfviLmCxJ7Rtjuy87cZerMPWtZGMwLCKHLiLnO5K7K9MqmRo5cvmh/LVvLke3wz64IKFg6nT+B760dvqk8aimQ
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230028)(7916004)(346002)(39860400002)(366004)(376002)(396003)(136003)(451199021)(786003)(316002)(6486002)(52116002)(41300700001)(33716001)(9686003)(6506007)(6512007)(41320700001)(26005)(186003)(3450700001)(40140700001)(2906002)(38350700002)(38100700002)(85182001)(85202003)(5660300002)(8676002)(8936002)(66946007)(66476007)(6916009)(66556008)(478600001)(4326008)(46492018); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: constructor.university
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b834236a-fda9-483c-96b9-08db6c3b5646
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: GVXP190MB1991.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2023 18:23:51.0851 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: uRHvAdE3v2riO0amLD/80f44YvYvRqCx7suwA5dNrjSD839fPgeAMk83xhrzptfqNpfeu9DboFF6XwAgWgLRP7fCgGpTmogBSNwBcoKXPTk=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB9P190MB1593
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/su_G82CDiRn1WyZJ_JmbfJy8rJQ>
Subject: Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-versioning" drafts
X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <netmod.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/>
List-Post: <mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 18:23:58 -0000
On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 05:54:40PM +0000, Joe Clarke (jclarke) wrote: > > - I prefer to have non-backwards compatible changes marked and > > explained in the modules instead of relying on some schema > > comparison algorithm. > > > > [JMC] IMHO, the algorithm is useful in addition to any per-module notation as the tooling can provide a clear, consolidated report of the overall compatibility. > > > > Sure, years ago I implemented smidiff, but then assuming that every > reader has the proper tools is likely wrong. And while tools can spot > differences, they lack the ability to give explanations or advice how > to adapt to changes. NBC changes deserve to be documented where they > take place. Tooling can spot missing documentation. > > [JMC] We have per-module notation, and we discussed general per-node tags (though they were moved to schema comparison as you point out). Part of this oscillation is due to changes in feedback over time, and I am unclear the best path forward on this issue. Myself, personally, I would be okay bringing back the per-node tags as I agree with your point above. > The module revision derives from the changes, hence hiding the changes behind a module revision label and suggesting tools to find the details is really backwards. It is relatively pointless whether a module is at revision a.b.c or d.e.f, as long as the definitions imported and used from that module have no NBC changes, the module revision label does not matter for this particular import. If Rob's story is true that NBC changes are rare, then marking them where they occur seems the simplest and most effective solution. /js -- Jürgen Schönwälder Constructor University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 <https://constructor.university/>
- [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-versi… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Robert Varga
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Alex Huang Feng
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- [netmod] 答复: Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Fengchong (frank)
- [netmod] YANG filenames in module versioning Jason Sterne (Nokia)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Joe Clarke (jclarke)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] YANG filenames in module versioning Robert Varga
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Robert Varga
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Robert Varga
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Robert Varga
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… tom petch
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… tom petch
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Joe Clarke (jclarke)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Robert Varga
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Ladislav Lhotka
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jason Sterne (Nokia)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jason Sterne (Nokia)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Joe Clarke (jclarke)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Jürgen Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… tom petch
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… tom petch
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Robert Varga
- Re: [netmod] Joint WGLC on "semver" and "module-v… Kent Watsen