IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch

Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com> Fri, 17 April 2020 14:22 UTC

Return-Path: <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA073A097C for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 07:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.233
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.233 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=meinbergfunkuhren.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tdycKucGrVW1 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 07:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr150059.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.15.59]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B3CE3A0979 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 07:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=ft5HaiFkCbVtqC/3b7UF3OpH0hyhwZqwDcevGTiVpVStbU1JAi9M1TFlxLLzu+hYhevdbRVxOOclANiVbowPksM25gCXXfCbint4wqWBLKT7bskOA/KUJSkvtZGOtPAvyM2dY2SJtMZCtlQnHfVNerlIb1clev59PThUl+bZG/0IFTre3lCX9V4tdu42ikeZeU+JWvuu9/a2h15fld7PaKeqdVclI4WoeIp8wYAplQwMZgmJYJS6gvBHdpDDvEo/C4RbKOMFzAZbm2TY+l14ha2fh2wCa1cTu8ZH+X+7ieTh1Su0Kmkdvm8qdJ9uEBf1nCotZQcvczcY3E/cb3CCuw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=LrUip+wDIDLbK4/hsrhTBqS23GsmcfAuDJTM4Lgu06Q=; b=TiRckiDICWQVn+bjI/F3WNy06W8N+vndn39p4WgQST7Ru1ZhYywfNrCqu5EbzgPVAt6IudLdxiwwcuGWVVrg23SmzCHNxsZB1LeS0wqMStnKHItdmn+mZ1pNz3dAU9w+XSz+opqqFxKVMhdxsaiqgkpwNN1xJPgE3bxu+0+CLo2z1LO8Wj3RXPshdTnLfA0SZ1mBgjBBnn6r/S0KfRLKHGyTPSX27mXCqWeWyL0zvDWA8+NmYVUcKU2cVbmkHRUzAu6/FKrcUU8S2b2nxdh0H+ThvbQXKaWlqKCANOzXcobZgyeqsYSSzh8p4u0XpKFvtqyBGt5ASYJknme7dCqAjA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=meinberg-usa.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=meinberg-usa.com; dkim=pass header.d=meinberg-usa.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=meinbergfunkuhren.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-meinbergfunkuhren-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=LrUip+wDIDLbK4/hsrhTBqS23GsmcfAuDJTM4Lgu06Q=; b=PV0A8SgzBhDr8bU5p7Hn+hy35p2O6A7Xv6jR9taHtoVmbHrGW31EwfXHiWLkrzTc/zkgnr2O4+jfrnxlXWteAzTmHtZbozstMljhWnkOit6ncrHuKb552d64xUe5sJzzfpxc6d7m9W1aQB7NSL03dQMccso1EWMyylgMh334SoE=
Received: from DB8PR02MB5611.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:eb::31) by DB8PR02MB5481.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:e1::31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.26; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:22:03 +0000
Received: from DB8PR02MB5611.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9525:30ab:defe:44a6]) by DB8PR02MB5611.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9525:30ab:defe:44a6%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2900.030; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:22:03 +0000
From: Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com>
To: James <james.ietf@gmail.com>, "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch
Thread-Index: AQHWEOYv5hVc24KDEky093B5a71QhKh4fQ+AgAA8gQCAAA4YgIAACmqAgAD4yYCAAJCNgIABFBmAgACBIBmAAAgMAIAABFGAgAFoOFw=
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:22:03 +0000
Message-ID: <DB8PR02MB5611A0E85B2FFB446C6BFE1ACFD90@DB8PR02MB5611.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAJm83bBV+Pox3r6KU49ShwMOvr=R+U_vDKJtSZhfT6XX4qWmbA@mail.gmail.com> <20200414112541.GD1945@localhost> <CAJm83bCxuS_X68-pvpOWCPSmjAjTeYNJVuuOEhV-i82R7B28Mg@mail.gmail.com> <20200414155241.GF1945@localhost> <CAJm83bC1EhwQQ=+B7XPbEkvhOWvxU8zjCd290Fj5N43aMJQTkg@mail.gmail.com> <20200415072023.GG1945@localhost> <CAJm83bAEDuLk6vSa82D3smXO4x7iDywoy+FpC=gdm=m3SLrVLg@mail.gmail.com> <20200416082557.GI1945@localhost> <DB8PR02MB5611418689CEA2FB66C0FD80CFD80@DB8PR02MB5611.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> <20200416163654.GK1945@localhost>, <4549c569-4a01-dcc3-4f22-cc199ef6d26a@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4549c569-4a01-dcc3-4f22-cc199ef6d26a@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com;
x-originating-ip: [64.30.82.72]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9f6e768c-59d9-469b-192f-08d7e2dab37e
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB8PR02MB5481:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DB8PR02MB5481FF7C1CFDE78D4CD1820DCFD90@DB8PR02MB5481.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273;
x-forefront-prvs: 0376ECF4DD
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB8PR02MB5611.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(136003)(346002)(396003)(39830400003)(376002)(366004)(316002)(55016002)(33656002)(44832011)(8676002)(53546011)(6506007)(186003)(8936002)(7696005)(19627405001)(110136005)(81156014)(9686003)(26005)(64756008)(66556008)(66446008)(966005)(71200400001)(76116006)(66946007)(91956017)(86362001)(52536014)(5660300002)(2906002)(66476007)(508600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: meinberg-usa.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: hKuZT98Et0XTUVjA/BNu/pyckUKUWdbXWymGlG71NxiC+d/LI+xTG/mGFREAfpN6T1untNsvDAYNHT5HuLkkqD/QqaOyf+WqBAQw/awAOpOAQvc/ksF764w+fJGvioafu+GwQ4p6UhLSgQUSn1y4ug==
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB8PR02MB5611A0E85B2FFB446C6BFE1ACFD90DB8PR02MB5611eurp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: meinberg-usa.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9f6e768c-59d9-469b-192f-08d7e2dab37e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Apr 2020 14:22:03.6089 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d59904cd-769f-4368-8bd0-f5f435893a38
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NBB4PhsaX+92lQgnC3owZ5VN3+1rX1ChJB7z9pa69vzsSUSNCxII++KJnavRcF335/ZtKG2SC2tv7HSbeVwrw9WJrtnAzU6SLmmmyn7lKXA=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB8PR02MB5481
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/431el96cqAnvVNijGmflN8k2GOE>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:22:09 -0000

I think that it is a good idea, and I would be happy to help.

Doug

________________________________
From: ntp <ntp-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of James <james.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 9:52 AM
To: ntp@ietf.org <ntp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch

It appears to me that this Working Group's efforts in determining what
is appropriate for NTPv5 would be helped by analysing where use cases
like below are mapped to current/expected protocol functionality and
capabilities across PTP, NTP, and Roughtime. I would be happy to be part
of or potentially lead such a thing if people felt it was worth the effort.

- J

On 16/04/2020 17:36, Miroslav Lichvar wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 04:11:21PM +0000, Doug Arnold wrote:
>> Supporting simple harware implementations in closed specialized networks, like a robot, is a problem already well solved by PTP.  Making NTP do that does not help solve technical problems.  Making a timing protocol that is robust and secure is not at all solved by PTP.  That is how NTPv5 can make the world better.
> ...
> Maybe the best example of an extremely simple device that needs to
> support NTPv5 and nothing else is an NTPv5 stratum-1 server. Consider
> how much will the cost of the hardware change if NTS is required
> and the same performance is expected.
>

_______________________________________________
ntp mailing list
ntp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email