Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch
James <james.ietf@gmail.com> Thu, 16 April 2020 16:52 UTC
Return-Path: <james.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2645A3A0EAE for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:52:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ADoe16MwwBAV for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wr1-x441.google.com (mail-wr1-x441.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::441]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD9A03A0EAD for <ntp@ietf.org>; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wr1-x441.google.com with SMTP id j2so5642285wrs.9 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8aObmfRsADgcWww+l44LqBvLnCDjWrpKKQIWuICMxC0=; b=tCLOpg1aGKkWJjEo1LFLX3g6ks5tMfAPJjptXF75iFnZKpSDOGqqjnAA6ORp6O4po9 1Q7WkSPJ/G0qieD8CLtPByz1Aha+NWtd+TCrviZtSYLZXIpqPCuWYNXMbQMPw1xkv9RI 8Sprw/l1WcDmf4irorO0Hzo2J/A5qghivEIkQvJ6fM8MMh4TaesM+4/bxDCFHXUNrzfK gqvjfKaT4ZlWLdcE0w7rwtlbHz29Iue+qf2+X12kfGmaXGBZIAVQb1t+vSPXXdsTCNof OFUa+fFu9RPFSvCNsVY1cOb/f+l8Drxm0xK6CV7qSpYHXlQUdwcaGW5qWI4rSe6aURLc dU5g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8aObmfRsADgcWww+l44LqBvLnCDjWrpKKQIWuICMxC0=; b=mtLihqHRA0BsqeGsMursPWy0vuruzmwomgFEpzXOzOfQmgSiBQsbeyGVt6bd42nPVC BTaNHLBtUGmyXBhQEyRk+QJ2Gz0V1QAslTAbCbD7QQgRnO2NgK8EVRjh9KkExDOBGHeT IvyAItAelyb2HcEUwLYYP/Sjs7yGtbKgNP6b471/9vCkbA2wvYZ4JE9wts8fLLB1I72q vVHTLrdz6vvHE65bAZBP2dzKOoAlLXMMT5qbrl7vV+AdRmJWwG9ZRVTBiaRngDManhYO Dhct/PKEVAgHoz37nUFScsOXSPNc1IHk3QtVrkmXO4JJOOY6rIXbHBnk8iT47Q8c6+Q1 /lqw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaoosAbvD9X8vT9hD+0S4GCrR0L/Gposn7b09mNlx/itgOHDPov luEPp5sDLTOJ4rWM2LK/NHihc5DK
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLmSIXetQMjogxvuhNczzPOQJjnlQMp0kpoT82VKw0y4EHOeYYQaFwyorpILPVgUmDjqKHmiQ==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:f708:: with SMTP id r8mr34267569wrp.424.1587055943016; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:52:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2a02:c7f:60b:e000:fda5:713d:1ea2:7007? ([2a02:c7f:60b:e000:fda5:713d:1ea2:7007]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e2sm9444316wrv.89.2020.04.16.09.52.22 for <ntp@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: ntp@ietf.org
References: <CAJm83bBV+Pox3r6KU49ShwMOvr=R+U_vDKJtSZhfT6XX4qWmbA@mail.gmail.com> <20200414112541.GD1945@localhost> <CAJm83bCxuS_X68-pvpOWCPSmjAjTeYNJVuuOEhV-i82R7B28Mg@mail.gmail.com> <20200414155241.GF1945@localhost> <CAJm83bC1EhwQQ=+B7XPbEkvhOWvxU8zjCd290Fj5N43aMJQTkg@mail.gmail.com> <20200415072023.GG1945@localhost> <CAJm83bAEDuLk6vSa82D3smXO4x7iDywoy+FpC=gdm=m3SLrVLg@mail.gmail.com> <20200416082557.GI1945@localhost> <DB8PR02MB5611418689CEA2FB66C0FD80CFD80@DB8PR02MB5611.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> <20200416163654.GK1945@localhost>
From: James <james.ietf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4549c569-4a01-dcc3-4f22-cc199ef6d26a@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:52:21 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:76.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/76.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20200416163654.GK1945@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/_5353LjA5WjPul6QvqTJW45hAaM>
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 11:56:47 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:52:27 -0000
It appears to me that this Working Group's efforts in determining what is appropriate for NTPv5 would be helped by analysing where use cases like below are mapped to current/expected protocol functionality and capabilities across PTP, NTP, and Roughtime. I would be happy to be part of or potentially lead such a thing if people felt it was worth the effort. - J On 16/04/2020 17:36, Miroslav Lichvar wrote: > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 04:11:21PM +0000, Doug Arnold wrote: >> Supporting simple harware implementations in closed specialized networks, like a robot, is a problem already well solved by PTP. Making NTP do that does not help solve technical problems. Making a timing protocol that is robust and secure is not at all solved by PTP. That is how NTPv5 can make the world better. > ... > Maybe the best example of an extremely simple device that needs to > support NTPv5 and nothing else is an NTPv5 stratum-1 server. Consider > how much will the cost of the hardware change if NTS is required > and the same performance is expected. >
- [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] [EXT] An NTPv5 design sketch Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] [EXT] An NTPv5 design sketch Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Doug Arnold
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch James
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch James
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Doug Arnold
- [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: An NTPv5 design sketch Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Doug Arnold
- [Ntp] Antwort: Re: An NTPv5 design sketch< kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Salz, Rich
- Re: [Ntp] An NTPv5 design sketch Kyle Rose
- [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: An NTPv5 design sketch Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: An NTPv5 design sketch Doug Arnold
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: An NTPv5 design s… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: An NTPv5 desi… Miroslav Lichvar