Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Field drafts -- Four separate drafts

Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com> Wed, 04 September 2019 15:19 UTC

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References: <mlichvar@redhat.com> <20190902095854.GC15024@localhost> <20190903120544.394CC40605C@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> <20190904095111.GJ15024@localhost> <93C7B33D-8B6C-4FDF-A55E-7B20AB7B03BE@meinberg.de> <A7C4D27502000083822C0D04@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <D5F28766020000316A6A8CFC@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <2E18D20E0200009A822C0D04@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <4B834D170200006586EDC2A6@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <831B91BE020000B87ED719BE@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <5D6CB84E020000A100033405@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <6A31A7C90200006043047E14@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <87F2C84C0200007A6A6A8CFC@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <0A3D67B1020000F643047E14@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <6FF2BC4A020000476A6A8CFC@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <B23647160200000E86EDC2A6@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de> <5D6F917E020000A10003374F@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
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From: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 08:19:33 -0700
Message-ID: <CACsn0c=3fc2t+zZ9+J9=4oqNEEsk1fcBL8qgdi7icHoTBqz8DQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ulrich Windl <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de>
Cc: NTP WG <ntp@ietf.org>, Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de>, mlichvar@redhat.com
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Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Field drafts -- Four separate drafts
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As someone who has far less experience of black magic I don't quite get the
problem or proposed solutions. New thread maybe?

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 3:27 AM Ulrich Windl <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de>
wrote:

> >>> Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de> schrieb am 04.09.2019 um
> 12:05
> in
> Nachricht <93C7B33D-8B6C-4FDF-A55E-7B20AB7B03BE@meinberg.de>de>:
> > Using a Ethernet mac address or an IP address will allow to identify a
> server
> > if it is included in the "sync chain" data set, I therefore would
> > definitively go for a random ID. I am not yet decided if it should be
> allowed
> > to let the user assign a static ID via configuration as that would make
> > duplicates/collisions more likely than the random ID approach.
>
> It there an RFC about "Operators aren't allowed to do silly things"
> already?
> ;-)
> Maybe the default (recommended setting) should be random on every daemon
> start, but I do not like seemingly arbitrary restrictions...
>
> Regards,
> Ulrich
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >     Heiko
> >
> >
> > On 04.09.19, 11:52 "ntp im Auftrag von Miroslav Lichvar"
> > <ntp-bounces@ietf.org im Auftrag von mlichvar@redhat.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 03, 2019 at 05:05:44AM -0700, Hal Murray wrote:
> >>> I think there are two approaches.
> >>>
> >>> One is to use random data. The probability of a collision can
> >>> be made
> >>> arbitrarily small by making the number of bits in the ID big
> >>> enough. That
> >>> needs good randomness.
> >>>
> >>> The other approach is to piggyback on some other scheme that
> >>> has already
> >>> solved the problem.
> >>
> >> The former makes more sense to me. We don't need the ID to be
> >> static.
> >> Generating a random number on each start should be fine.
> >>
> >>> Can we assume that every server will have a globally routeable
> >>> IPv6 address?
> >>
> >> No. IPv6 is not universally available. Address translation is
> >> common, so we cannot assume an IPv4 or IPv6 address is unique.
> >>
> >>> Can we assume that every server will have an Ethernet host address?
> >>
> >> The vast majority will, but I'm not sure we can rely on them
> >> being random.
> >>
> >>> In both cases, for multi homed servers, just pick one. After
> >>> that choice,
> >>> it's an ID, no longer an address.
> >>
> >> Yes. And it's important that all clients get the same ID.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Miroslav Lichvar
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ntp mailing list
> >> ntp@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Heiko Gerstung
> > Managing Director
> >
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