Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Field drafts -- Four separate drafts
Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de> Wed, 28 August 2019 11:24 UTC
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 13:23:35 +0200
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Thread-Topic: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Field drafts -- Four separate drafts
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From: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de>
To: Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>, "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Field drafts -- Four separate drafts
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Why not define a method in v5 that not only protects against degree 1 loops but maybe also against degree 2,3 or n? This is what I meant when trying to explain that we should not stick to the existing packet format with its shortcomings. Regards, Heiko -- Heiko Gerstung Managing Director MEINBERG® Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG Lange Wand 9 D-31812 Bad Pyrmont, Germany Phone: +49 (0)5281 9309-404 Fax: +49 (0)5281 9309-9404 Amtsgericht Hannover 17HRA 100322 Geschäftsführer/Management: Günter Meinberg, Werner Meinberg, Andre Hartmann, Heiko Gerstung Email: heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de Web: Deutsch https://www.meinberg.de English https://www.meinbergglobal.com Do not miss our Time Synchronization Blog: https://blog.meinbergglobal.com Connect via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heikogerstung On 28.08.19, 13:20 "ntp im Auftrag von Harlan Stenn" <ntp-bounces@ietf.org im Auftrag von stenn@nwtime.org> wrote: On 8/28/2019 4:14 AM, Miroslav Lichvar wrote: > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 03:42:15AM -0700, Harlan Stenn wrote: >> On 8/28/2019 3:37 AM, Miroslav Lichvar wrote: >>> My suggestion would be to keep the NTP header 48 octets long and >>> change only two fields: the refid and reference timestamp. They are >> >> If you change the refid field how will you effect degree 1 loop detection? > > Hopefully with something better than the current refid field based on > (hashes of) addresses. Something like your suggested-refid proposal, > except the extension field would contain both the ID of the server > (randomly generated) and the ID of the its reference. Extension fields are optional. What benefit is there to requiring them if there's already an adequate field for the information in the base packet? I'm very curious how the ID if the remote server's reference will be useful, and not just another attack vector. > This could fit into the space of the NTPv4 refid and reference > timestamp, but it would take 64 of those 96 bits and I'm not sure if > 32 bits is enough for the other new stuff. Exactly what do you see as the use-cases for this information in the base packet? Exactly how would this information be used? >>> ignored by current servers and most clients. That gives us 12 octets >>> of contiguous space in the header to work with. That's plenty for the >>> timescale negotiation and other metadata. Longer fields should be in >>> extension fields. No MACs allowed. >> >> I assume you meant "No >legacy< MACs allowed." > > Right. > -- Harlan Stenn, Network Time Foundation http://nwtime.org - be a Member! _______________________________________________ ntp mailing list ntp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp
- [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Field d… Karen O'Donoghue
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… Heiko Gerstung
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extensi… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… tglassey@earthlink.net
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- N… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… Salz, Rich
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- N… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Magnus Danielson
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- N… Ulrich Windl
- [Ntp] Antw: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoptio… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Miroslav Lichvar
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- N… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Harlan Stenn
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Ado… Ulrich Windl
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Ado… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Ado… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Heiko Gerstung
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Heiko Gerstung
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Ado… Ulrich Windl
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Ado… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Salz, Rich
- [Ntp] NTP errors Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… Harlan Stenn
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- N… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Watson Ladd
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Hal Murray
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Ado… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Calls for Adoption -- NTP Extension Fie… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- NTP Ext… Miroslav Lichvar
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption -- N… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Miroslav Lichvar
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Ado… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Mark Atwood
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Adoption … Steven Sommars
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Calls for Ado… Ulrich Windl