IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ntp] Resending: Thoughts on draft-ietf-ntp-refid-updates

Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Fri, 20 July 2018 17:42 UTC

Return-Path: <wlosh@bsdimp.com>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF2E131070 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Jul 2018 10:42:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.908
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RSkH5MJ0i411 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Jul 2018 10:42:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-it0-x234.google.com (mail-it0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83DED1310A6 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Jul 2018 10:42:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-it0-x234.google.com with SMTP id p4-v6so15728855itf.2 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Jul 2018 10:42:40 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=lCSoWTZLrLA+ka+ZbsLn3NBHEM+GsrfcSjNH5psuWfs=; b=zEqJW1MCLibNHdQougqcRirrVB7VvtTDspkYlyMfB4ZilpHg398kGGbi5VXTarXCyh R1/7WCmRs0bAwEBlXYf1PzK924+63u0w3+gsJpS/cuOoG3DFryKTOdh5zDkBypKparBz ySfI3HEJcX4/Tq0YZZbnegYtoQ2EGQYyFca+9dFUFjmSx8/azDVuu8xE2LAQDhBVX36N jvgHHj0eKlnWIhe4hy2obOwAljbijrdfYfo1VsNmQC11uFYz/N9Qd8KEI1DT61+i8wf/ 5hEdLgUKgLCjbtmohqUEaLRJm72ylEqgYa7y96d6H8fxgbxHBA01AMzDF39ZxqDCdH+5 33gg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lCSoWTZLrLA+ka+ZbsLn3NBHEM+GsrfcSjNH5psuWfs=; b=ejDWI3UhP/tbCPxdjBy5OBLC6lL8Hlt9sNcMBmp+WCSPpYuYoI7hh3QYBkXqU00oT0 3RqW+XuLDNaj37EGIeTwSeFPp4Zwq3b/mTBH1WJwRhKnoRQCaaygxKuD3gIfcrfnxjHw UZquFbJTnKqkJIhk+WL1xU53uN7VKP0EWxPRfsqETjHcTDTtYJXBcGCRuUN57sM5BYRv khjWxv7w4N47orTrJrKIMvRzjoK7y7ZJCJuzsulxCvFPV4xoqir7dq4+qRnMah00LNX6 PSZGKNtSqhwQcJHsAM6u+PgEGvtatOCxXbIzZhVeyMMP1D7MGkgU7/eiPwqUdCDmVXbw y7SA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEuXEzFmuBUIfINRvz/hv2qZTTMwb/ezv8gXk3lLVarCcqm4Ld8 RWml+nVVD8c3iCJZtx0r50CoZ9Gfsfiy+D0QQZAx+w==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfPVPboBMWZP2/1XrCmZ/iue3F/CUtX1vytlReLwSxC6F7x7Qz/FRU2ntSN4AiZ77K3/gCUfVaHdrLFPMnR7CQ=
X-Received: by 2002:a24:7288:: with SMTP id x130-v6mr2657925itc.73.1532108559491; Fri, 20 Jul 2018 10:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com
Received: by 2002:a4f:4485:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 20 Jul 2018 10:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Originating-IP: [63.237.121.26]
In-Reply-To: <02114e33-dc23-3055-2a89-8be89b80733a@meinberg.de>
References: <5B2795C6-F78E-40FB-8B98-790E50228808@redfish-solutions.com> <5EB0F348-AC75-4C29-A576-FA590305EA2E@netnod.se> <C7C5AC86-1488-452B-8C1D-05F5151D2AFB@develooper.com> <8e0a4de9-71b3-04ec-59fb-4431ea0a2d2d@meinberg.de> <CAJm83bAZcxw6GuXMwJiy0dNJ7RmjJJaXeSNzwQ_5_0xCXUKH+A@mail.gmail.com> <02114e33-dc23-3055-2a89-8be89b80733a@meinberg.de>
From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 11:42:38 -0600
X-Google-Sender-Auth: GNriOKLscVmMCHp9-H7DPlFsvzI
Message-ID: <CANCZdfp+aa5Yi1TmTsPXCc0+EkK=pZWYhxeC7fSPsRv1XFUpKA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>
Cc: Daniel Franke <dfoxfranke@gmail.com>, ntp@ietf.org, Ask Bjørn Hansen <ask@develooper.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000724c58057171d2f9"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/kMOKDzXHZ1PvpNSKubh0btzEcSc>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Resending: Thoughts on draft-ietf-ntp-refid-updates
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 17:42:48 -0000

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:00 AM, Martin Burnicki <
martin.burnicki@meinberg.de> wrote:
>
> > In a better world, both NTP time and POSIX time would be TAI-based,
> > and leap second updates would be handled through the time zone
> > facility, with UTC being just another local time zone. Alas, that ship
> > sailed away a long time ago.
>
> Unfortunately, yes.
>

Agreed. Though that path is not without it's own peril for disconnected
systems that need to sit on the shelf and act as hot spares (not the
most-common problem, but it's illustrative of the edge cases that crop up
and likely not the only one). I think it would be much better and have an
order of magnitude fewer problems than the crazy we have today.  I'd add to
that some authenticated source of truth for leap seconds over the net in a
standardized format, since we're already asking for ponies :)

Warner

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email