Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework

[Joe Touch <[e-mail]>]

On 1/30/2017 11:38 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
>  
>
> You asked:
>
> What makes NVO3 different from any other network?
>
>  
>
> Answer:  Some NVEs, especially the NVE implemented on server, don’t
> support PIM or other multicast mechanism. They just encapsulate the
> data packets from VMs with an outer header.
>
Then the requirement would be:
    NVO3 does not require native multicast, but does require supported
multicast capability.

>  The “UNIQUE needs of NVO3” is to have the  mechanism for NVEs
> (especially the ones that don’t support multicast) to map multicast
> traffic from VMs (users/applications)  to proper Outer Header. E.g. if
> NVE doesn’t support multicast (PIM), what outer destination address
> should be.
>

That needs to be explained in detail, especially for ways to support
multicast without PIM.

>  All we need is to differentiate multicast messages originated from
> users/applications from the infrastructure multicast at the
> introduction section. Not intended to describe in detail of the
> Infrastructure multicast.
>
>  
>
> I don’t understand how  RFC3819 (Advice for Internet Subnetwork
> Designs) can be used. RFC 3819 talks about MTU, TCP/link
> retransmission, etc. 
>

See sections 5 and 6.

Joe

>  
>
>  
>
> Linda Dunbar
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:*Joe Touch [mailto:[e-mail]]
> *Sent:* 2017年1月30日12:42
> *To:* Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>; Olufemi Komolafe
> <[e-mail]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[e-mail]>; Bocci,
> Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[e-mail]>
> *Cc:* MBONED WG <[e-mail]>; Truman Boyes
> <[e-mail]>; <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>; Williamson,
> Beau <[e-mail]>; Dino Farinacci <[e-mail]>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework
>
>  
>
> Note: most of what you want to say about multicast has already been
> observed in RFC 3819.
>
> The discussion in section 1.1 should refer to LANE (RFC1577) as an
> example.
>
> However, before we get down into this in detail, I have to ask: what
> makes NVO3 different from any other network?
>
> This WG doesn't need one doc for everything an NVO3 network needs that
> a network already needs. The docs should focus on the UNIQUE needs of
> NVO3 or ways in which NVO3 provides multicast that are not available
> in generic networks.
>
> The rest of the discussion of the need for multicast, etc., ought to
> cite existing RFCs.
>
> Joe
>
> On 1/30/2017 10:35 AM, Joe Touch wrote:
>
>     Hi, Linda,
>
>     This isn't correct grammar.
>
>     Do you want to say:
>
>     /Infrastructure multicast /*is a capability needed by */networking
>     services//, such as Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor
>     Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP),
>     multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc../
>
>     Joe
>
>     On 1/30/2017 10:21 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
>         Joe,
>
>          
>
>         Are you ok with the following?
>
>          
>
>         /Infrastructure multicast are //for networking services//,
>         such as Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery
>         (ND), Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast
>         Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc../
>
>          
>
>         Linda
>
>          
>
>         *From:*Joe Touch [mailto:[e-mail]]
>         *Sent:* 2017年1月30日12:03
>         *To:* Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>; Olufemi Komolafe
>         <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>; Anoop
>         Ghanwani <[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)
>         <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         *Cc:* MBONED WG <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>;
>         Truman Boyes <[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>; <[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>;
>         Williamson, Beau <[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>; Dino Farinacci
>         <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         *Subject:* Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework
>
>          
>
>         I'd suggest "networking services", only to avoid the
>         implication that these are all L3.
>
>         Joe
>
>          
>
>         On 1/30/2017 9:58 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
>             Joe,
>
>              
>
>             Do you mean the following?
>
>              
>
>             /Infrastructure multicast are originated by network
>             //services //for the purpose of establishing network
>             topology and reachability, such as Address Resolution
>             Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host
>             Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name
>             Server (mDNS), etc../
>
>              
>
>             Linda
>
>              
>
>             *From:*Joe Touch [mailto:[e-mail]]
>             *Sent:* 2017年1月30日11:49
>             *To:* Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>
>             <mailto:[e-mail]>; Olufemi Komolafe
>             <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>;
>             Anoop Ghanwani <[e-mail]>
>             <mailto:[e-mail]>; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia -
>             GB) <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>             *Cc:* MBONED WG <[e-mail]>
>             <mailto:[e-mail]>; Truman Boyes
>             <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>;
>             <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
>             <mailto:[e-mail]>; Williamson, Beau
>             <[e-mail]>
>             <mailto:[e-mail]>; Dino Farinacci
>             <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>             *Subject:* Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework
>
>              
>
>             Hi, Linda,
>
>             These are not all "network protocols", as I noted already.
>
>             It might be useful to describe them all as "services", though.
>
>             I.e., to replate "network protocols" with "services" (or
>             maybe even "networking services" - to distinguish them
>             from OS services, but not give the impression they belong
>             at the "network" layer).
>
>             Joe
>
>              
>
>             On 1/30/2017 8:17 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
>                 Joe,
>
>                  
>
>                 Thank you very much for articulating a more precise
>                 definition.
>
>                  
>
>                 How about this:
>
>                 /Infrastructure multicast are originated by network
>                 //protocols //for the purpose of establishing network
>                 topology and reachability, such as Address Resolution
>                 Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host
>                 Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name
>                 Server (mDNS), etc../
>
>                  
>
>                 /Application-specific multicast traffic are originated
>                 and consumed by user applications./
>
>                 Linda
>
>                  
>
>                 *From:*Joe Touch [mailto:[e-mail]]
>                 *Sent:* 2017年1月27日18:20
>                 *To:* Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>; Olufemi Komolafe
>                 <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>;
>                 Anoop Ghanwani <[e-mail]>
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia
>                 - GB) <[e-mail]>
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                 *Cc:* MBONED WG <[e-mail]>
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>; Truman Boyes
>                 <[e-mail]>
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>; <[e-mail]>
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>; Williamson, Beau
>                 <[e-mail]>
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>; Dino Farinacci
>                 <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                 *Subject:* Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework
>
>                  
>
>                  
>
>                  
>
>                 On 1/27/2017 4:03 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
>                     /[Linda] //Infrastructure multicast are originated
>                     by network nodes for the purpose of establishing
>                     network topology and reachability, such as Address
>                     Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery
>                     (ND), Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP),
>                     multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc../
>
>                     + Also, how would you classify protocols like
>                     OSPF, PIM, VRRP etc that are dependent on
>                     multicast?  Even if you do not consider them
>                     relevant for this framework, perhaps you should
>                     briefly mention them?
>
>                     /[Linda] I don’t think we can enumerate all
>                     network protocols (many of them use multicast).
>                     The purpose is to differentiate multicast
>                     originated by network nodes and the multicast
>                     originated by applications. /
>
>                 DHCP and mDNS are applications ("L7").
>
>                 Network nodes don't originate anything; their protocol
>                 layers do (link, network, transport, application).
>
>                 It might be useful to focus on the difference being
>                 "network infrastructure" vs "user applications" as the
>                 better way to describe the difference. I don't think
>                 "network nodes vs. applications" is clear or meaningful.
>
>                 Joe
>
>              
>
>          
>
>      
>
>  
>