Re: [OAUTH-WG] WGLC for Step-up Authentication

I've published an -04. It has that very minor change. There was also an
off-list discussion during WGLC that resulted in thinking it'd be
worthwhile to add a reminder that access tokens are opaque to clients. So I
took that as LC feedback and -04 adds a brief note towards that end.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-step-up-authn-challenge/

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 1:22 PM Vittorio Bertocci <vittorio=
40auth0.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Thanks Dima for the comment. Some thoughts:
>
> > (editorial)...
> Good point. "statically" would characterize the simplest of the scenarios,
> but in fact any case where the AS is the only arbiter of the authn level
> works for the point we are trying to make. We'll drop "statically". Thanks!
>
> > Apart from...
> This spec focuses on empowering an RS to communicate its ACR and freshness
> requirements, regardless of the reasons leading the RS to make that
> determination: the logic by which that happens is explicitly out of scope,
> and in many real life cases it might simply be unknowable (eg anomaly
> detection engines based on ML are often back boxes). The mechanism
> described here can be used alongside other mechanisms that might require
> the client to get the user to interact with the AS, as it is the case for
> insufficient_scope, but those remain distinct cases (eg insufficient _scope
> might not require any step up but simply explicit user consent, and if it
> does require a stepup, that's entirely determined by the AS without any
> communication with client or RS required).
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 17:43 Dima Postnikov <dima@postnikov.net> wrote:
>
>> *This message originated outside your organization.*
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Couple of quick comments from me:
>>
>> 1) (Editorial) >In simple API authorization scenarios, an authorization
>> server will statically determine what authentication technique
>>
>> In many scenarios, authorization servers will use *dynamic* decisioning
>> to determine authentication techniques; it's just not exposed to the
>> client in a way to make it actionable (which is why this specification's
>> intent makes perfect sense).
>>
>> 2) Apart from authentication level, there might be other reasons why
>> users might be forced to go through the authorization flow, for example,
>> insufficient authorization / scopes / claims / etc.
>>
>> If there is a mechanism to let the client know, as a practitioner, i'd
>> rather have the same approach for both authentication and authorization.
>> There are a range of authorization policy engines in the market that could
>> return "STEP UP is required" after looking at authentication, authorisation
>> and many other real-time signals. It's just not standardized...
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 7:30 AM Pieter Kasselman <pieter.kasselman=
>> 40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I am very supportive of this work and have been working through
>>> different use cases to see whether it can satisfy the requirements that
>>> arise from them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One observation from working through these uses cases is that as
>>> customers move to Zero Trust architectures, we are seeing customers
>>> adopting finer grained policy segmentation. Consequently customers are
>>> planning to deploy segmented access control by data or action sensitivity,
>>> within a service. This approach to policy design makes it more common for a
>>> single service to depend on multiple authentication context values or
>>> combinations of authentication context values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An example of this is a policy that has multiple acr values (e.g.
>>> acr1=password, acr2=FIDO, acr3=selfie check, acr4=trusted network). A
>>> customer may define a policy that requires different combinations of these
>>> acr values, for example, a file server may requires password for general
>>> access (e.g. acr1), FIDO authentication (acr2) or password access and being
>>> on a trusted network to read sensitive data (acr 2 of (acr1 + acr 4), FIDO
>>> authentication and password (acr1 + acr2) for accessing editing sensitive
>>> documents and a real-time selfie check on top of FIDO and presence on a
>>> trusted network  (acr1 + acr2 + acr3 + acr4) to initiate a sensitive
>>> workflow (e.g. check-in code). Other variations of this includes database
>>> access with different types of access requirement for certain rows
>>> (row-level permissions) or columns (column level permissions) with
>>> different combinations of acr values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was curious if this type of scenario where multiple authentication
>>> contexts and combinations of contexts are required is something others see
>>> (or are beginning to see) as well?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pieter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* OAuth <oauth-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2022 3:02 PM
>>> *To:* oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [OAUTH-WG] WGLC for Step-up Authentication
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Correction:*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please, review the document and provide your feedback on the mailing
>>> list by *Oct 7th, 2022*.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 9:52 AM Rifaat Shekh-Yusef <
>>> rifaat.s.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is to start a *WG Last Call *for the *Step-up Authentication *
>>> document:
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-oauth-step-up-authn-challenge-03.html
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-ietf-oauth-step-up-authn-challenge-03.html&data=05*7C01*7Cpieter.kasselman*40microsoft.com*7C0078f809101147bc978308da9ca32020*7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47*7C1*7C0*7C637994521713812011*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=18sfemyWqYb06PvUA9eTLaq0ccDY14*2F6ETo58JpE*2FJQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!PwKahg!537tJQfGj3Z_Yi2waywl1VPGyDs9818JE-M-KNFgPtoB0O26a7ksRvAYrPyzfKKXsMKCVblAomtRXj8$>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please, review the document and provide your feedback on the mailing
>>> list by *Sep 30th, 2022*.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>  Rifaat & Hannes
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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