Re: [Openpgp-dt] Resurrecting the design team?

[Justus Winter <[e-mail]>]

Hi Stephen,

Stephen Farrell <[e-mail]> writes:

> Hi Justus,
>
> (I'll skip over details of MRs etc to process in this mail.)
>
> On 27/09/2022 13:24, Justus Winter wrote:
>
>> The OpenPGP WG mailing list has proven again to be unsuitable to get any
>> work done. 
>
> I agree that the DT was productive and can be again in
> future, but don't think this is the time to reactivate
> it. (Mainly for the reasons Paul W. stated but also as
> we need to resolve the current thread on the WG list.)
>
> It can be hard to deal with IETF WG lists yes. But that's
> really a cost of being open, so has to be borne, even if
> it's a real pain from time to time.

I disagree with the idea that "being open" means tolerating that kind of
behavior.  Being open doesn't mean giving random people the chance to
derail the process.  Being open doesn't mean letting crackpots burn out
people who are actually doing some work and are actually having a horse
in the game.

>> This is an endless drain of energy.  We need to address that
>> at some point.  Maybe close the working group and open a new one with a
>> different name.  Maybe just kick everybody and see who rejoins.
>> 
>> Is there precedent in other working groups?  E.g., are the TLS people
>> having problems with people clinging to SHA1 and dismissing AEAD as
>> pointless?  Are there threads on the MLS WG list that have 150+ mails in
>> them from random strangers bringing the WG work to a grinding halt?
>
> There's no precedent for closing a list like that, for that
> reason. The have been times when TLS was significantly side-
> tracked, and those were worse believe it or not, but the WG
> did manage to get through that, albeit with some effort.
>
>> The DT was the most successful attempt of getting anywhere since I have
>> started working in this space.  I welcome and support the motion to
>> reinstate it.
>
> Ack. I think there will come a time when that's the right
> thing to do, but it'd not, IMO, be the correct approach
> right now.

If there is actual work to be done, I will engage again.  But until that
point, I'll stay away from that toxic dumpster fire.

Best,
Justus