Re: [openpgp] Padding packets

Paul Schaub <vanitasvitae@fsfe.org> Wed, 15 June 2022 22:50 UTC

Return-Path: <vanitasvitae@fsfe.org>
X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74EEFC15AAFE for <openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:50:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.265
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u5bviV6Z2_ot for <openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:50:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FC48C15AAF8 for <openpgp@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from fews1.riseup.net (fews1-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.riseup.net", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4LNgW80YjszDqP8 for <openpgp@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 22:50:28 +0000 (UTC)
X-Riseup-User-ID: 3A606BD2A957C2EE5D7E9907F74BFDB56F66BCFB891729F435B9F801D6616D26
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4LNgW74cRTz5vw2 for <openpgp@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 22:50:27 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <cd929657-aac0-a362-d7b3-61e9624af990@fsfe.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 00:50:25 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: openpgp@ietf.org
References: <87wndi88ri.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de>
From: Paul Schaub <vanitasvitae@fsfe.org>
Jabber-ID: vanitasvitae@mercury-im.org
In-Reply-To: <87wndi88ri.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/openpgp/7bphAIHid0KFkzI7Qua9KagfWeY>
Subject: Re: [openpgp] Padding packets
X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." <openpgp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/openpgp>, <mailto:openpgp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/openpgp/>
List-Post: <mailto:openpgp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:openpgp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp>, <mailto:openpgp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 22:50:30 -0000

Hey,

On 15.06.22 13:29, Werner Koch wrote:
> The problem with random padding packets is that this opens a high
> capacity channel with all its problems.  Having this in the protocol is
> a problem because applications taking care not to leak too much
> information will need to reject such messages and inform the user about
> a possible problem.


Do you have a concrete example in mind?


> Please drop this.  A better mechanism to add padding is by handling this
> at the MIME layer.


There are other use-cases other than email where length obfuscation 
might make sense, e.g. when talking to key servers.
Having the padding packet as part of the standard covers these use-cases 
as well.

Paul