Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences-02 posted
"Robb Topolski" <robb@funchords.com> Wed, 05 November 2008 22:43 UTC
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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:42:51 -0800
From: Robb Topolski <robb@funchords.com>
To: "Woundy, Richard" <Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com>
In-Reply-To: <74CCBBDF76102846AFA7B29F3A98D3F602896489@PACDCEXCMB06.cable.comcast.com>
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References: <45AEC6EF95942140888406588E1A660205B9E872@PACDCEXCMB04.cable.comcast.com> <C5370881.14992%rpenno@juniper.net> <74CCBBDF76102846AFA7B29F3A98D3F602896489@PACDCEXCMB06.cable.comcast.com>
Cc: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com>, p2pi@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences-02 posted
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I don't get the part where access network download consumption increased as a result of using P4P (section 4.2). Can someone explain how that could happen? Robb On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Woundy, Richard < Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com> wrote: > Reinaldo, > > I can answer the easy questions. We will need some assistance from Pando > (and Yale) for some of the other ones. > > >What was the file size in those experiments? > > 21 megabytes. From section 2: "Pando distributed a special 21 MB > licensed video file as in order to measure the effectiveness of P4P > iTrackers." > > >How long would it take to download the file in the three different > scenarios? I know that more consumed bandwidth in access might lead one > to conclude that file was downloaded faster... > > To clarify, most of the raw data (download speed and Internet > peering/transit traffic volumes) were collected by Pando Networks from > their P2P clients, not collected by Comcast across its links. So my > assumption is that the Pando client used the content size (21 MB), and > divided by the download time to get the speed. > > >Was the file already seeded in Comcast's network? More specifically, > how > was file propagation done? > > Any seeding happened outside of Comcast's network, and outside of > Comcast's control. That's really a question for Pando. > > >Was PEX, DHT and others enabled in the clients? > > Pando would know whether PEX was enabled. It would be safe to assume > that with respect to this trial, DHT was NOT enabled, since Pando > supplied the tracker. (The pTracker in the draft is a tracker operated > by Pando.) > > >Was local peer discovery enabled in the clients? > > Pando would know. > > >BTW, can broadcast/multicast peer discovery work in Cable networks? > > Do you mean something like this: > http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0026.html? > > If so, peer discovery probably would not work over the typical last mile > cable network. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see this protocol as intended for > peer discovery within one's home network / LAN / WiFi network, not over > a cable network. > > >So, were clients allowed to become seeders to the outside of Comcast's > network? > > Yes, they were. > > As a related item, look closely at section 4.2. The amount of aggregate > uploaded data from Comcast clients (per swarm) was about 140,000 MB. The > amount of aggregate downloaded data from Comcast clients (per swarm) was > about 60,000 MB or so. So the typical Comcast client uploaded more than > twice the amount of data that it downloaded. > > >How much of the swarm was within Comcast and outside? > > Most of the swarm was outside of Comcast. Unfortunately I don't have > access to the size of the global swarm, but I would guess that Comcast > clients represented no more than 15% of the swarm, and maybe as little > as 5%. Those guesses are based on the behavior of the random swarm, e.g. > Comcast clients uploaded to non-Comcast clients 94% of the time in the > random swarm. > > -- Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: p2pi-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:p2pi-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Reinaldo Penno > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:23 AM > To: Livingood, Jason; p2pi@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences-02 posted > > Hello Jason/Rich, > > This is such an interesting draft. I'm surprised there are no questions > about it. Maybe everybody else is part of P4P one way or another and I'm > not > in the 'in' crowd (;-) so I have questions. > > * What was the file size in those experiments? Some post long ago said > the > file size in some P4P experiments was really small, as opposed to the > top > 100 torrents where the file size is ~1Gb. I was curious what is the > optimization payback in terms of download time for large files as > opposed > small files. > > * How long would it take to download the file in the three different > scenarios? I know that more consumed bandwidth in access might lead one > to > conclude that file was downloaded faster but I'm not sure this is a > straightforward conclusion. > > * Was the file already seeded in Comcast's network? More specifically, > how > was file propagation done? All clients started from scratch and had to > start > pulling the file from some other side of the world and then exchanging > pieces? This is mainly due to the discussion in 4.2. > > * Was PEX, DHT and others enabled in the clients? > > * Was local peer discovery enabled in the clients? BTW, can > broadcast/multicast peer discovery work in Cable networks? > > * If more clients finish downloading faster and become seeders you would > think that for popular content Comcast's upstream bandwidth would > increase > due to the number of seeder in its network. So, were clients allowed to > become seeders to the outside of Comcast's network? How much of the > swarm > was within Comcast and outside? > > Thanks, > > Reinaldo > > On 11/3/08 12:49 PM, "Livingood, Jason" > <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com> > wrote: > > > For some reason the URL was cut to two lines - trying again: > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experienc > > es-02.txt > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: p2pi-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:p2pi-bounces@ietf.org] On > >> Behalf Of Livingood, Jason > >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:35 PM > >> To: p2pi@ietf.org > >> Subject: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences-02 posted > >> > >> A draft at > >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-livingood-woundy-p4p > >> -experienc > >> es-02.txt may be of interest to folks that have been > >> interested in P2Pi and ALTO. We have requested time on the > >> ALTO agenda at IETF 73 to present this. > >> > >> Regards > >> Jason > >> _______________________________________________ > >> p2pi mailing list > >> p2pi@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > p2pi mailing list > > p2pi@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi > > _______________________________________________ > p2pi mailing list > p2pi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi > _______________________________________________ > p2pi mailing list > p2pi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi > -- Robb Topolski (robb@funchords.com) Hillsboro, Oregon USA http://www.funchords.com/
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- [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences-02 … Livingood, Jason
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Woundy, Richard
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Robb Topolski
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Woundy, Richard
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Y. R. Yang
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Song Haibin
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Ye WANG
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Robb Topolski
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Y. Richard Yang
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Y. Richard Yang
- Re: [p2pi] draft-livingood-woundy-p4p-experiences… Laird Popkin