Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload
"Ali C. Begen (abegen)" <abegen@cisco.com> Thu, 13 December 2012 16:55 UTC
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From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" <abegen@cisco.com>
To: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan@vidyo.com>, "payload@ietf.org" <payload@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:55:41 +0000
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Cc: "draft-ietf-payload-vp8@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-payload-vp8@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload
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Thanks, the authors just rev'ed the draft to fix the first issue. I hope they will address the second issue first in the list and then reflect the agreement in the next revision. I will hold on to the doc write-up till then. -acbegen -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan@vidyo.com> Date: Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:29 AM To: "Ali C. Begen" <abegen@cisco.com>, "payload@ietf.org" <payload@ietf.org> Cc: "draft-ietf-payload-vp8@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-payload-vp8@tools.ietf.org> Subject: RE: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload >Hi, Ali -- > >I just wanted to make sure the issue had been considered; if the WG >agrees that the current design is okay given the limitations I've >mentioned, I'm not going to object. > >Discussion of the issue might be helpful in the document. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ali C. Begen (abegen) [mailto:abegen@cisco.com] >Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:13 PM >To: Jonathan Lennox; payload@ietf.org >Cc: draft-ietf-payload-vp8@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload > >The first one should be fixed by the authors thru a quick revision. As >for the second one, I will ask the authors reply. Also if there are >others who strongly think one way or another, lets discuss it. > >Jonathan, are you ok if the authors simply acknowledge this in the draft >(assuming they agree with you) or do you actually not like this at all? > >-acbegen > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan@vidyo.com> >Date: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:49 AM >To: "payload@ietf.org" <payload@ietf.org> >Subject: Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload > >>Hi -- I have two comments on this draft. Sorry for being late. >> >>First of all, an editorial matter: Section 6 says the format has no >>parameters, but section 6.1 lists two optional parameters (max-fr and >>max-fs). >> >> >>Secondly, more substantively, I note that the payload format's rules on >>KEYIDX and TL0PICIDX impose a fair bit of overhead on boxes that wish >>to splice together VP8 streams, since both values are required to >>always increment consecutively in a bitstream (if they're being used). >> >>By contrast, the equivalent fields of the H.264 SVC payload format (in >>the PACSI) just say that IDRPICID must be different in consecutive IDR >>frames, without requiring that the value increment by 1; and TL0PICIDX >>resets to 0 on every IDR frame, rather than carrying on continuously. >>(H.264's IDR frames are analogous for these purposes to VP8's essential >>keyframes). >> >>This means that an H.264 SVC splicer -- as long as it doesn't get >>unlucky, such that the two streams it's splicing happen to have >>identical IDRPICID values at the splice point -- can just transition >>from one bitstream to another at any IDR frame. >> >>By contrast, following a splice, a VP8 splicer must re-write both these >>fields for the rest of the lifetime of the stream, since they each have >>only one valid possible value following the splice. >> >>The VP8 payload format's decision is a reasonable design choice -- as >>compared to the H.264 SVC rules, it removes some ambiguity between >>splice points and packet loss, giving decoders somewhat greater >>visibility as to what's going on in the bitstream, and also allows >>TL0PICIDX and KEYIDX to be orthogonal options because they increment >>independently. However, I wanted to make sure this had been considered >>explicitly by the working group, and we had consensus that it was the >>right decision. >> >>(Note well disclaimer: Vidyo has an IPR declaration against the VP8 >>payload -- see <http://tracker.tools.ietf.org/ipr/1622/>.) >> >> >>On Dec 5, 2012, at 9:20 PM, Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: >> >>> I have not seen any comments on the list. Please review the draft and >>>post your comments on the list. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> -acbegen >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Ali C. Begen" <abegen@cisco.com> >>> Date: Monday, November 19, 2012 3:15 PM >>> To: "payload@ietf.org" <payload@ietf.org> >>> Subject: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload >>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> We had a WGLC for this draft earlier this year and there have been a >>>>few updates to the document. I am starting a 2nd WGLC. Please review >>>>and comment on the list by December 10th. >>>> >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-vp8/?include_tex >>>> t=1 >>>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload >>> >> >>-- >>Jonathan Lennox >>jonathan@vidyo.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>payload mailing list >>payload@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload >
- [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Tom Harper
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Patrik Westin
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Patrik Westin
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Patrik Westin
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Patrik Westin
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Stephan Wenger
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Glen Zorn
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Patrik Westin
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Roni Even
- Re: [payload] WGLC for VP8 Payload Jonathan Lennox