Re: [Pesci-discuss] Back to the decision-making thing

Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> Thu, 17 November 2005 23:15 UTC

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To: Melinda Shore <mshore@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Pesci-discuss] Back to the decision-making thing
References: <BF9A1F5C.4015%mshore@cisco.com>
From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:14:51 -0500
In-Reply-To: <BF9A1F5C.4015%mshore@cisco.com> (Melinda Shore's message of "Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:13:48 -0500")
Message-ID: <tsl64qqq32s.fsf@cz.mit.edu>
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>>>>> "Melinda" == Melinda Shore <mshore@cisco.com> writes:

    Melinda> On 11/10/05 4:47 PM, "Scott W Brim" <swb@employees.org>
    Melinda> wrote:
    >> We've been around this one a few times, eh?  Is it possible in
    >> the current situation?

    Melinda> I don't know, but I do know that the extent to which
    Melinda> people are being expected to suck it up when they're
    Melinda> unhappy with an outcome is the extent to which we've
    Melinda> already moved away from consensus decision-making towards
    Melinda> voting.  I think that's almost certainly necessary, but
    Melinda> it seems to me to be a somewhat unfortunate artifact of
    Melinda> this tacit shift towards voting is that instead of using
    Melinda> clear criteria for determining an outcome (for example,
    Melinda> simple majority, some other threshold) we're using
    Melinda> I-know-it- when-I-see-it criteria.

I don't think it is a shift or at least I have not seen a shift in how
good chairs judge consensus within the IETF.

But yes, the difference between rough consensus and consensus is that
some people some of the time will not be able to accept the outcome.


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