Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on delay vs. loss-only rate-adaptive for DiffServ
James Polk <jmpolk@cisco.com> Tue, 16 July 2013 21:11 UTC
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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:11:27 -0500
To: "Cheng-Jia Lai (chelai)" <chelai@cisco.com>, "James Polk (jmpolk)" <jmpolk@cisco.com>, "Toerless Eckert (eckert)" <eckert@cisco.com>, "Michael Ramalho (mramalho)" <mramalho@cisco.com>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>, "rmcat@ietf.org" <rmcat@ietf.org>
From: James Polk <jmpolk@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on delay vs. loss-only rate-adaptive for DiffServ
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CJ Thank you for the quick review. I'll ask you the same question I just asked Michael, the draft isn't very long (under 8 pages currently), and it is a work in progress - but do you have text or just points that this draft needs to cover that it doesn't currently? James At 01:36 PM 7/16/2013, Cheng-Jia Lai (chelai) wrote: >Same here... I feel it makes sense to create a new DSCP / CS4 for >transport of video flows that have rate adaptive behaviors and/or >intra-flow preferential drop priorities as indicated in the I-D. The >service provided by the network may thus be considered new, i.e. >different from what exists in AF4x, so IMHO, using a new or reusing >CS4 service class adds clarity for the user applications. > >Regards, >CJ > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of Michael Ramalho (mramalho) >Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:36 AM >To: tsvwg@ietf.org >Subject: [tsvwg] FW: [rmcat] Fwd: Submitted ID on delay vs. >loss-only rate-adaptive for DiffServ > >TSVWG Members, > >I should have copied you on my email to the RMCAT mailer below. > >I strongly support the creation of a new DSCP for transports in >which their congestion control can adapt based on delay. > >The current ID in support of this >(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-tsvwg-delay-vs-loss-ds-service-classes-00.txt >) is a work in progress, but a step in the right direction. > >It is a given that the ability of the eventual RMCAT adaptation >mechanisms to achieve low delay will be function of the other >dominant traffic it is competing against. If the dominant competing >traffic DEPENDS on loss, the RMCAT packets are held hostage to being >delayed by the bottleneck queue delay maximum. > >Thus, whenever possible, it will be preferable for RMCAT flows to >compete with other congestion control transports that adapt on >delay. Even this may not get us to the desired low-delay goals when >a portion of the traffic has long RTTs (i.e., adaptation control >loops that are long in time), or for links that have a highly-time >varying capacity, but it will help for a lot of common bottleneck >topologies (e.g., slowly time-varying access bufferbloat). > >It is my hope that this topic has some discussion time in the Berlin >Transport WG (not the specific codepoint to be chosen, but rather >the need for one). > >Off Soapbox, > >Michael Ramalho, Ph.D. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Ramalho (mramalho) >Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:06 AM >To: rmcat@ietf.org >Subject: RE: [rmcat] Fwd: [tsvwg] Submitted ID on delay vs. >loss-only rate-adaptive for DiffServ > >RMCAT Design Team, > >The draft Lars references below is a formal request for a DSCP >dedicated to "RMCAT-only (or other nice delay-based cc) traffic". > >It will take a while to become socialized ... and we can progress >our RMCAT work in the interim. > >Michael Ramalho > >-----Original Message----- >From: rmcat-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of Eggert, Lars >Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 5:26 AM >To: WG WG >Cc: draft-polk-tsvwg-delay-vs-loss-ds-service-classes@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [rmcat] Fwd: [tsvwg] Submitted ID on delay vs. loss-only >rate-adaptive for DiffServ > >Possibly of interest to RMCAT. > >Begin forwarded message: > > > From: James Polk <jmpolk@cisco.com> > > Subject: [tsvwg] Submitted ID on delay vs. loss-only > rate-adaptive for DiffServ > > Date: July 16, 2013 8:07:59 GMT+02:00 > > To: <tsvwg@ietf.org> > > > > (as an author) > > > > Toerless and I put together a draft about legacy rate-adaptation > based only on loss vs. what RMCAT is looking to (for RTCWEB), which > is based on delay and loss. Here's the URL. > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-tsvwg-delay-vs-loss-ds-service-classes-00.txt > > > > It's more raw than we had in mind, but we believe this is > necessary, based on implementation experience and what users and > customers have in their networks, or are planning on having in > their networks soon. > > > > James & Toerless > >
- Re: [rmcat] Fwd: [tsvwg] Submitted ID on delay vs… Michael Ramalho (mramalho)
- [rmcat] Fwd: [tsvwg] Submitted ID on delay vs. lo… Eggert, Lars
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Cheng-Jia Lai (chelai)
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… James Polk
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… gorry
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Michael Welzl
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Wesley Eddy
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Cheng-Jia Lai (chelai)
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… James Polk
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… James Polk
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Eggert, Lars
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Michael Welzl
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Black, David
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Michael Ramalho (mramalho)
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Michael Welzl
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… ken carlberg
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Michael Ramalho (mramalho)
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Michael Welzl
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Zaheduzzaman Sarker
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Michael Ramalho (mramalho)
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Michael Welzl
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Scott Brim
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Dave Taht
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Dave Taht
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Scott Brim
- Re: [rmcat] [tsvwg] FW: Fwd: Submitted ID on dela… Randell Jesup