Re: [Roll] [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6lo-routing-dispatch-00.txt
"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Tue, 02 December 2014 21:45 UTC
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: "robert.cragie@gridmerge.com" <robert.cragie@gridmerge.com>, "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6lo-routing-dispatch-00.txt
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Cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>, "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6lo-routing-dispatch-00.txt
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Hi Robert: I'm in sync with you now. I will apply the changes that you suggest. And yes, I was confused between MH and RH, and I need to add the deep hops to the MH description. Finally, for the fence discussion, we try to avoid it by saying that both are legal but not in a same network, so we are creating exclusive features but not deprecating them. I know it's a trick, but that's supposed to help the transition for those who wish to transition at all. Thanks for this! Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Cragie [mailto:robert.cragie@gridmerge.com] > Sent: mardi 2 décembre 2014 12:16 > To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); 6lo@ietf.org > Cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks; 6tisch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6lo-routing- > dispatch-00.txt > > Hi Pascal, > > Comments inline. > > Robert > > > On 02/12/2014 3:31 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > > Hello Robert: > > > > I agree with you. This is exactly the dilemma. But I do not read your own > advice in there? > <RCC>The point I was trying to make is that whilst there may be a case > for changing something in an incompatible way due to "limited > deployment", it is a) hard to draw the line at what "limited" means and > b) it's sets a precedent for a specification to change further in the > future. Whilst I accept that progress is inevitable, it is > counterproductive if it happens too quickly. So what I was asking in > essence was which side of the "limited deployment" line do people see > the use of the mesh header? I confess I am sitting on the fence at the > moment.</RCC> > > > > For your questions on the draft: > > > >> Also a comment re. section 8, I think the 'I' field needs to be 1, as > >> 'Size' represents the HopsLft field, not the size of the header. > > I think you got it reversed. ' I' set is the can-ignore case where the size in a > length in bytes to be skipped if not understood. > > > > The text says: > > "If the I Flag is set, the Size / Format field contains the Length of the 6LoRH > expressed in bytes." > > > > Which means > > (I ==0 ) => "Size field contains length in bytes" > > > > So > > "the Size field does not contain the Length in bytes" => (I=0) > <RCC>Yes, I did get it wrong. I do think the description of the 'I' bit > could be clearer. For example, why not describe the two cases like this: > > 0 1 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ .......... +-+ > |1|0|0| TSE | Type | | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ .......... +-+ > <-- Implied length --> > > > where 'TSE' means 'Type specific extension', which is described in each > case of type and the length is either implied or explicitly stated after > the type field. The other case is: > > 0 1 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ .... +-+ > |1|0|1| Length | Type | | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ .... +-+ > <-- Length --> > > > which is the length case, which can be skipped by implementations that > do not understand the type. 'Size' and 'length' are terms that are too > similar in my opinion. > </RCC> > > > > > > >> It also doesn't seem to cover the Deep Hops Left concept in RFC4944. > > The ' Deep Hops Left ' comes from a structural limitation of the mesh header in > RFC 4944, which encodes a hops left. No such thing here. > > The idea is that you place as many consecutive RH3-6LoRH as you need. > <RCC>We are talking about MH-6LoRH not RH3-6LoRH, aren't we? Hops left > can also be more than 6 bits? Perhaps an illustration would help.</RCC> > > This is how we do not max out the number of hops, and also how we handle > the various sizes of compressed addresses. But agreeably, we need to provide > more details on address compression and how the header is stripped hop by > hop. > > Which we will do as a group if we take the 6LoRH path, but would be a waste > of time if the group rejects this approach overall. > > > > Thanks for your comments : ) > > > > Pascal > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Robert Cragie [mailto:robert.cragie@gridmerge.com] > >> Sent: lundi 1 décembre 2014 19:17 > >> To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); 6lo@ietf.org > >> Cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks; 6tisch@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6lo- > routing- > >> dispatch-00.txt > >> > >> Hi Pascal, > >> > >> I agree that with hindsight it could be considered a bit greedy of > >> RFC4944 to allocate 1/3 of the dispatch code space to the mesh header > >> (especially when the definition of it itself is questionable) but what > >> you are advocating is a replacement, not a framework extension. RFC6282 > >> only deprecated an ESC code, i.e. something which had not yet been used, > >> which is not quite the same. This effectively makes this at best a new > >> version of 6lowpan (which is difficult to distinguish) or at worst > >> arguably a whole new protocol. > >> > >> Whilst hindsight is a wonderful thing, it can lead to the situation > >> where a standard never stands still and keeps evolving. This makes it > >> very difficult to develop products as there is always the fear that > >> something will change the next year. Upgrading products is often quite a > >> difficult process, especially in the case where there could quite > >> feasibly be thousands of deployed devices which may have limited upgrade > >> capability. > >> > >> I would like to hear what other people think about this. > >> > >> Also a comment re. section 8, I think the 'I' field needs to be 1, as > >> 'Size' represents the HopsLft field, not the size of the header. It also > >> doesn't seem to cover the Deep Hops Left concept in RFC4944. > >> > >> Robert > >> > >> On 27/11/2014 2:03 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > >>> Dear all: > >>> > >>> This is a response to the question about the compression of RFC 6553 on > top > >> of RFC 6554. > >>> It seems exaggerated to consume a dispatch type for the RPL option only. > >>> But here, we introduce a routing header which is the equivalent of the mesh > >> header in RFC 4944; we propose a compressed TLV format that can encode > RH3, > >> RPL option, IP-in-IP, and is further extensible, for instance for upcoming > BIER. > >>> As it goes, the mesh header consumes 1/3 of all the 6LoWPAN addressable > >> space for application only in Mesh-under. > >>> This draft reuses that space in Route-over with the assumption that Route- > >> over will not co-exist in a sma enetwork with Mesh-under encoded in the RFC > >> 4944 fashion. > >>> If there is effectively a need for co-existence, devices have to implement > the > >> new Mesh-under format that is also proposed in the draft. > >>> Comments welcome, > >>> Pascal > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > >>> Sent: jeudi 27 novembre 2014 14:36 > >>> To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); Pascal Thubert (pthubert); Laurent Toutain; > >> Carsten Bormann; Laurent Toutain; Dr. Carsten Bormann > >>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6lo-routing-dispatch- > >> 00.txt > >>> > >>> A new version of I-D, draft-thubert-6lo-routing-dispatch-00.txt > >>> has been successfully submitted by Pascal Thubert and posted to the IETF > >> repository. > >>> Name: draft-thubert-6lo-routing-dispatch > >>> Revision: 00 > >>> Title: A Routing Header Dispatch for 6LoWPAN > >>> Document date: 2014-11-25 > >>> Group: Individual Submission > >>> Pages: 19 > >>> URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-thubert-6lo-routing- > >> dispatch-00.txt > >>> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-6lo-routing- > >> dispatch/ > >>> Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-6lo-routing-dispatch- > 00 > >>> > >>> > >>> Abstract: > >>> This specification provides a new 6LoWPAN dispatch type for use in > >>> Route-over and mixed Mesh-under and Route-over topologies, that > >>> reuses the encoding of the mesh type defined in RFC 4944 for pure > >>> Mesh-under topologies. This specification also defines a method to > >>> compress RPL Option (RFC6553) information and Routing Header type 3 > >>> (RFC6554), an efficient IP-in-IP technique and opens the way for > >>> further routing techniques. This extends 6LoWPAN Transmission of > >>> IPv6 Packets (RFC4944), and is applicable to new link-layer types > >>> where 6LoWPAN is being defined. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >>> The IETF Secretariat > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> 6lo mailing list > >>> 6lo@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lo > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > 6lo mailing list > > 6lo@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lo > > >
- [Roll] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thu… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notification … Martin Turon
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notification … Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] [6lo] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notific… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Roll] [6lo] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notific… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Roll] [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for… Robert Cragie
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notification … Martin Turon
- Re: [Roll] [6lo] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notific… Martin Turon
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notification … Richard Kelsey
- Re: [Roll] [6lo] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notific… James Woodyatt
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] [6lo] FW: New Version Notific… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Roll] [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] [6lo] FW: New Version Notific… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] [6lo] FW: New Version Notific… James Woodyatt
- Re: [Roll] [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for… Robert Cragie
- Re: [Roll] [6lo] FW: New Version Notification for… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notification … Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notification … Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] [6tisch] FW: New Version Notification … Michael Richardson