Re: [SCITT] [EXT]Re: Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials

[Steve Lasker <[e-mail]>]

Hi Carl, you bring up a great point that I should have clarified.
There roots of trust should be a collection. You may choose to have a "public/vertical" trust policy, and an internal team "trust policy".
We'll need a means to correlate the multiples, as how do they merge.
Dick - yup. It's interesting to think about how a company stamps their security stamp, and how it relates to the sources they allow in.

From: SCITT <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Dick Brooks
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2022 6:10 AM
To: 'Carl Wallace' <[e-mail]>; Orie Steele <[e-mail]>; Steve Lasker <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]; 'Steve Lasker' <Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [SCITT] [EXT]Re: Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials

Just like other entities in the sw supply chain, the entity providing the root of trust can impact the trustworthiness score of software.

Thanks,

Dick Brooks
[cid:image001.png@01D8AD9E.4D81A650]  [cid:image002.png@01D8AD9E.4D81A650]
Active Member of the CISA Critical Manufacturing Sector,
Sector Coordinating Council - A Public-Private Partnership

Never trust software, always verify and report!<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Freliableenergyanalytics.com%2Fproducts&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775393324%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UvC3lddhcdfABVduC5lNH%2FBo9UI2mZNKNyxQR64%2F3ow%3D&reserved=0> (tm)
http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reliableenergyanalytics.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775393324%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=e7eGrpg1XYOqxWH1r7coBhlrnFq3MCN8TllCDQvmhW8%3D&reserved=0>
Email: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Tel: [phone]

From: Carl Wallace <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2022 7:22 AM
To: Orie Steele <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Steve Lasker <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Steve Lasker <Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]<mailto:Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [SCITT] [EXT]Re: Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials

A single "trust store" may or may not suffice, but we likely want to put some fences around each trust anchor to limit what the trust anchor may be used to verify.

The FIDO metadata alliance has method of organizing trust anchors based on authenticator type: https://fidoalliance.org/specs/mds/fido-metadata-statement-v3.0-ps-20210518.html<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffidoalliance.org%2Fspecs%2Fmds%2Ffido-metadata-statement-v3.0-ps-20210518.html&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775393324%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=A1f2XHwt57dDgZg4pjsUUoGsn250CH8ILVHJPCGp160%3D&reserved=0>.

I briefed this new spec to the RATS working group last month: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wallace-rats-concise-ta-stores-00<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wallace-rats-concise-ta-stores-00&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775393324%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9E3eGOEU40cTanaD21j5nkHScwrfqbltdrJ6S%2F3lm%2Bc%3D&reserved=0>. There's a fork of the Veraison project's Corim repo with support for the -00 draft added here: https://github.com/carl-wallace/corim<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcarl-wallace%2Fcorim&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775393324%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8MHSgBmYXJyt%2BzHOH7Kid%2BoVfRkHPTnqqeJ%2FcNCr738%3D&reserved=0>. I'd imagine the environment and constraints parts move a bit still, but the rough idea may be what you are getting at below.


From: SCITT <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of Orie Steele <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 2:30 PM
To: Steve Lasker <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Steve Lasker <Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]<mailto:Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [SCITT] [EXT]Re: Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials

> This just points to the value of having personal, company, industry policy based trust stores

+1 to this, here are a few examples of how groups have formed their own trust systems:

- https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/pr/2020-12-16-01/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iata.org%2Fen%2Fpressroom%2Fpr%2F2020-12-16-01%2F&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ibiFkRbk9H51QnJ60w0IHjKfyB6cBno6s866TRmFfvE%3D&reserved=0> (aviation / travel)
- https://vci.org/issuers<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvci.org%2Fissuers&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8sraYlaHSVMVSsf4TGaC5VyaK%2BHB7YQP14lCll6r%2Bpc%3D&reserved=0> (healthcare)
- https://support.apple.com/guide/keychain-access/what-is-keychain-access-kyca1083/mac<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.apple.com%2Fguide%2Fkeychain-access%2Fwhat-is-keychain-access-kyca1083%2Fmac&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iWiJOGU8oFYbiljyPGzAGqU%2FFNqQUIu2tnlx6yEHgQU%3D&reserved=0> (personal)

You can imagine scenarios where a more limited set of issuers  might be required, or cases where you really want to be very open.

Regards,

OS

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 1:21 PM Steve Lasker <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
It's an interesting example of whether a single root trust store is the best solution.
Just because the browser trusts a root certificate, doesn't mean it's something we individually, or as a company believe is appropriate. We'll just leave the specifics for obvious conclusion.
This just points to the value of having personal, company, industry policy based trust stores

From: SCITT <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Dick Brooks
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 11:26 AM
To: 'Hart, Charlie' <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Orie Steele <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: 'Steve Lasker' <Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [SCITT] [EXT]Re: Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials

That's correct, Charlie. OATI's root cert is not included in the browser trusted certificate store.

I'm not sure why they chose to do this.

Thanks,

Dick Brooks
[cid:image003.png@01D8AD9E.4D81A650]  [cid:image004.png@01D8AD9E.4D81A650]
Active Member of the CISA Critical Manufacturing Sector,
Sector Coordinating Council - A Public-Private Partnership

Never trust software, always verify and report!<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Freliableenergyanalytics.com%2Fproducts&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZHDtHTLrITizz%2FPczCtT15%2BBFsUMO2hp4MbI%2BDCR074%3D&reserved=0> (tm)
http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reliableenergyanalytics.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IkzlFvkTWM3oziqg28OLgP3OavymFEgpI7uvASgdHlA%3D&reserved=0>
Email: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Tel: [phone]

From: Hart, Charlie <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 12:00 PM
To: 'Orie Steele' <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: 'Steve Lasker' <Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]<mailto:Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [SCITT] [EXT]Re: Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials

(Side comment: I see that OATI is not a recognized root certificate authority by Mozilla or Apple - didn't check others - so the website is therefore inaccessible without relaxing security.)

________________________________
From: SCITT <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of Hart, Charlie <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 11:48 AM
To: 'Orie Steele' <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: 'Steve Lasker' <Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]<mailto:Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [SCITT] [EXT]Re: Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials

Thanks Dick. That is really helpful for SCITT a lot of related projects I am working on.

Charlie
________________________________
From: SCITT <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of Dick Brooks <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 9:26 AM
To: 'Orie Steele' <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: 'Steve Lasker' <Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]<mailto:Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: [EXT]Re: [SCITT] Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials


Orie,



Here is a high-level overview of the authentication mechanism and tracking used today for OASIS, inter-tie electricity scheduling.



Everything starts with the NAESB registry (EIR); https://www.naesb.org/pdf4/webregistry_mo_registration_quick_ref_guide_v1.0_0417.pdf<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1IukwuhEQqregcVfBu_YTf7qloyu0S9CLEMvuw998GuhDfEFcipDth2Xtizyt11QWJE_rg9tKWNdFy9sR6AYzFs5C9RVZkYIdTyO90iI560dk7KjlRPsssiji4ni2uFgQoviKwbEitz9W0A-Jkx8qlZ-bf02dT2GpXl7-qqNgMCReV-n9bPYr7-gF7wRDuDdEpNTctYLkQFh_ODy3F4KcLc2yzJA66rSl-AObqSJo6LSNwG5QHs27-jxMPvsyvzy25FLEf6Q2NCVCA80ajyeRx-DLlAeVOtx8sKKHCAdqS60vvgk6XONNeacK9KVifmF7%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.naesb.org%252Fpdf4%252Fwebregistry_mo_registration_quick_ref_guide_v1.0_0417.pdf&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=MhDrKwDzEyGz2bNoD688LjbM50xrrTcxjDyr71GtIZA%3D&reserved=0>



Entities involved in inter-tie electricity transactions must register with NAESB's EIR, see link above.

The registration process requires a party to obtain a NAESB compliant X.509 certificate from an accredited certificate authority (ACA); https://www.naesb.org/pdf4/ac_authorities_2022.pdf<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1T_py857nSLdfkwTRZ1F7IUeOLa0Mr0av8bfeuUJwVfOrnlR9B8EzOzxv92Uz4iu2yhDeR4WKL_eKK39aC0HZNHbI0L6S2ynYyf3MIqoWrhcKic931Qc8ha00DiNeKcev3mIQGWSdmm3oQWFZZeYhZ_XBpcojw3HL66SqprENJXYRuXx_69m7-vIbXr6m_muJ25A0-WOODvl0ZvSKLB5bCCNQHy8CETUnFlhi7KK4XlPGw6ngc0NPELIFd66qeSsonDSqajtS6_XsVDeQZ9afWewRkWRR2CS3RPxKELdvgtWbTLdNUMEo_OVauUoZUAaf%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.naesb.org%252Fpdf4%252Fac_authorities_2022.pdf&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Sz8xlBP2LKR6FnPY30P6EIzFVb7JjeOaBeC9yokQNFs%3D&reserved=0>



Entities use their digital certificates for identification in OASIS; https://www.naesbwry.oati.com/NAESBWRY/sys-index.wml<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1K2p4qEguxjMHN9-wdAstRzAre5VeA0Zed0mvgfndElWXB3ORaiJPQc8AT7JJNrTMjapfMno_fFQCf0Y62gyPgnjQbEmdVMFYieaur2q043F0tN564aUJcAdmTBs4wbQV9V3zBPE-_4E3LKMveTRd4EEA3R0FVZKKh4vLBs4hzSu8wqJmm85OMK7l0hlniB0BYAgK4rRAKxGyo9m2gQbGh64ogBMsxFwFgbsiArp0Y6fdpXW0-RGp2kcNruYE4OtklUzkSHLHYNwG_4xj3QZVT0CcrM1parwb_zHxkQwcXBjyXQwqawaXGq5azf6Ymysk%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.naesbwry.oati.com%252FNAESBWRY%252Fsys-index.wml&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NyH1e5qJW7q7IPJhWRzqVTo7vbnZne6TyiQoanEFMVY%3D&reserved=0>



Inter-tie transactions are scheduled and tracked, using an E-TAG; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERC_Tag<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1jg0PAl4xaAUqdpMj0XlwOYUgtyWJ8AEDByMI06i_FhGx7hBsVedp3De0cfsLDJrOWQk0OpLsHA-LZhek33mGBHnd1yGGQeO7gyBdmpJ8iJUh1jEMhZRFRhVJl0de4TxzOc-JCGbVPgYXa-8-oyvGUdvqCL1u0riyE5i35ZXxhgFrK5jS167ftdpGerze8DpFzv01q-lfBzQY3KxMikI7Aq599QaeahZrP9NaHPsunaoGrxrKD2WGOgLGAbiIogZvwqD6F-rbN2lIbrdeJZSVYw42P3L69rJ7XlgeaYjhgkVyPIJ1HC1whjq-NLkd-N0k%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FNERC_Tag&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Kj8fZsaxFMsJXEDMOGwXtaCDTd7djPsFzGlyf%2Fdve6Q%3D&reserved=0>



E-TAG's are used to "connect the dots" and settle transactions that flow across Balancing Authroities.



Hope this helps.



Thanks,



Dick Brooks

[cid:image003.png@01D8AD9E.4D81A650]  [cid:image005.png@01D8AD9E.4D81A650]

Active Member of the CISA Critical Manufacturing Sector,

Sector Coordinating Council - A Public-Private Partnership



Never trust software, always verify and report!<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1uy0clDWHgs8Om4IdyHuQzeSluoA8y61U3xQt6svGk4U9mgvOzG2j87xdGPNZwfL_6NeZLyvs2RtDXbQkJ-uy5FySOKYDraC9BCS46sTnuZZuNABtffYE50uYM3Wm6rGdSXPbIPyLIo1S9U5eKgRY62SvXzyvZStiEIy-g4zrHrqiwoZ4G2AfwJHqEMJbnR-Z8wwwLfANn8naHWq7IhHtieZojGBeisJx2LyDGehov7fBpcHgRQuNF-I-Idh5jB6CnEp4puLs01qMMVa-dVd11j8FHVTLpLcooV6gqqaabRENW_QqNKXvWegEhvV1Ow4u%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Freliableenergyanalytics.com%252Fproducts&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pVj2XzmdVnb1eYbPdhXNbjVsrNkFmXP2KtZLnV4DXv0%3D&reserved=0> (tm)

http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1GaJ6l5AOFj6kxiBsMksWncl4vuiZ-pUmsWTXCh5o60xFuI9fXHdmN1JPI17VWNKtRAJykdCd5QOfGdmalJsZes_8gztMRvB-TvoYWb6WOAm14Usouk0VNKr4H31T9BT5T0w1SnOo7YCh-3jVo0P2A80_8zELCxl4Ngnjzy7TfQm5dwNV_k8eKhiVi6wwvKSudLmuLC5ig0f-n4vQfqd3zlefh4egnP1zyrbhWoo50tuzH3ceMULrOjDHUs9QVKGe8Q74awwW_o1b6KYbqOP7Z8sQrpBMjf_ClYd-WXRlq6NNIXX0Ncd2niPfogZIcU6Y%2Fhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.reliableenergyanalytics.com%252F&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Vq38Nw%2FThVfv0yx6kbd8ZvGzVPTEp8G0F223vad5Vds%3D&reserved=0>

Email: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

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From: Orie Steele <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 9:09 AM
To: dick <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: Steve Lasker <Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]<mailto:Steve.Lasker=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [SCITT] Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials



Thanks!



I am interested in applying Verifiable Credentials to energy use cases, even if we don't have customers in that sector today.

The calls are open (https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab#meetings<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1HgK84MRR4bzXYAE7Niaeb8pYlkoyIfmiR0g4Dwj3DQJAh8OlSJW5p7TckF_9U5dHGeGuxJhuDgslYxAZNOsxcRUvIxstDWa3DOjtKeNjD-_Hps6IsgjIJjvkoJM6z6RXWAtxjfWtD3HV63XpkV_CEsvexRY-o5lFOUDFBoLvOST5pm3bbQJt3vdY1-67GIT9kXmrMYnnWWXvjuDcZkNODE1fmxIV1SYT7tQT9JveadGh5Z92HkOF2nqx92HaLeF53pxMJ1kYS8DiFQiewlQiLm9iNH3U9ZkX9n0d4hCRmD8Sp062hKxDB9F-2b8UFejS%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fw3c-ccg%252Ftraceability-vocab%2523meetings&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KK%2B9xg%2FDZ0V700w%2Fer7ku0EBm42sbYbu0WsM6fw0lyY%3D&reserved=0>), but fair warning that most of the work happens on github async, and we usually just process issues and PRs during call time.

There are also aspects of Verifiable Credentials that I believe are relevant to the structure of endorsements / receipts:

The concept of "evidence":

- https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#evidence<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1q-6jNVM6JiTVpXBQDNrSw3REGqFIliEx86xQ3m1hKtfX38eVvCRSGYTej4K2SK8mdFcn2JqBZgNoMPS_rcXVBpyF1l5PmPOoFcCN-jmLI5CobgwDRSgnNTCovBIYUYq-zsaSmiiEAjGR8kgswrCi8csy-ZzBotSGM-M-GgM63-EeON2WUp7tplgZcM0drfvbvSkPmJNyhQ7IVz_JWZxPH45UgBXDwg3rEsIvPQjU2jV8dtlLOSr9PG4zRhRFcn9AsvFV6OrKVwmbgHSCHZuRW-k3T397qO__A7xJXOWprvooFuCc9y3ROkMuPUf12DNw%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.w3.org%252FTR%252Fvc-data-model%252F%2523evidence&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EAKGHIwnVtiLFFcQruZihWFDZyoorQUHwgyPwMeYMLc%3D&reserved=0>
- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cose-countersign#section-3.1<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F13CILjI0celZHQgVsa-DDsoLq4Y6By6DHs7W3LY0H0AaoPvolfKPwURAqZMWPsqbcYMf_kWUKJ-sA8NLPu8wziluBz0l68B1CFniaOfUMqbMnF6C6XI8csVpayR5nSduP0DzdtYVrex3bRpGSYyBCgbFgdA9HbqgX48TPfCCsHHqaKMfCgJpqP1qqkn_Rvw8fRnwCncrbvhrPVrZR2672B85djLFYzQp6QkfNZLX2m7CyYa7EPkxXYtqpqrgKQ86Yl61tsyZjFCIlMY3qaHk_-T7iJ8rYjvtEwV0uGSDPKFXIQ-beS1aVt3d7utZHCYYa%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker.ietf.org%252Fdoc%252Fhtml%252Fdraft-ietf-cose-countersign%2523section-3.1&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=c05Oa%2FLXCj%2BNNpC2TUpRjB5naFt%2FdWJusbYqvwzv%2B1g%3D&reserved=0>
- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4998<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F17DAGq2foFEYXkhjzWI_n3yyo-dU8HMigJwlon4x4SGlq2nwnPypo_SZZqn_HVrT0rymuTwcEF4muUKWKqsOGLkvOVa-LFd_al2zZ_lLftgtmhzFQhRFS7caOQJT0nf29VQs3woHnI7EoIfq1qF_87Py293jXAOIKL085OwcNuJbugCi46HG7Aoa0iPHiyavETuibYIlyB9E0dX9ck-eC39YMnZLGZAbf_U_zNKqeI-AYJbaKiKSYOMap89Xfp9wsrscC0zBwrQyJbQeJeX0W6bmWhWAyUuBgeHltrwzsA_eV6OT02qMLpg525iRIanpK%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker.ietf.org%252Fdoc%252Fhtml%252Frfc4998&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E4cnd3kmxmJgoo9JH4RKbPVgGkelbyHAx%2FIIsS7jNNE%3D&reserved=0>



As one example.

I am hopeful that the next version of the Verifiable Credentials specification can point more directly to IETF RFCs to make its arguments,
even if the json data model can't be updated to support CBOR / COSE as a first class citizen this round.
Perhaps the next charter for that WG might support this better, if we pave the way with examples.

Regards,

OS



On Wed, Aug 3, 2022, 7:54 AM Dick Brooks <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

I agree. This paper by Orie, Michael, Brian and Mahmoud is very useful as guide for terminology and semantics.



I can provide the authors with a description of how we track electricity transactions for inter-tie scheduling, called OASIS a NAESB standard, if interested.



Thanks,



Dick Brooks



Active Member of the CISA Critical Manufacturing Sector,

Sector Coordinating Council - A Public-Private Partnership



Never trust software, always verify and report!<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1uy0clDWHgs8Om4IdyHuQzeSluoA8y61U3xQt6svGk4U9mgvOzG2j87xdGPNZwfL_6NeZLyvs2RtDXbQkJ-uy5FySOKYDraC9BCS46sTnuZZuNABtffYE50uYM3Wm6rGdSXPbIPyLIo1S9U5eKgRY62SvXzyvZStiEIy-g4zrHrqiwoZ4G2AfwJHqEMJbnR-Z8wwwLfANn8naHWq7IhHtieZojGBeisJx2LyDGehov7fBpcHgRQuNF-I-Idh5jB6CnEp4puLs01qMMVa-dVd11j8FHVTLpLcooV6gqqaabRENW_QqNKXvWegEhvV1Ow4u%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Freliableenergyanalytics.com%252Fproducts&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775549562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pVj2XzmdVnb1eYbPdhXNbjVsrNkFmXP2KtZLnV4DXv0%3D&reserved=0> (tm)

http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1GaJ6l5AOFj6kxiBsMksWncl4vuiZ-pUmsWTXCh5o60xFuI9fXHdmN1JPI17VWNKtRAJykdCd5QOfGdmalJsZes_8gztMRvB-TvoYWb6WOAm14Usouk0VNKr4H31T9BT5T0w1SnOo7YCh-3jVo0P2A80_8zELCxl4Ngnjzy7TfQm5dwNV_k8eKhiVi6wwvKSudLmuLC5ig0f-n4vQfqd3zlefh4egnP1zyrbhWoo50tuzH3ceMULrOjDHUs9QVKGe8Q74awwW_o1b6KYbqOP7Z8sQrpBMjf_ClYd-WXRlq6NNIXX0Ncd2niPfogZIcU6Y%2Fhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.reliableenergyanalytics.com%252F&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775706779%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cfhLpk6YV8EXpvYEGBFV%2Bsi%2BJdPmaoUFdoMxh%2B65eoc%3D&reserved=0>

Email: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

Tel: [phone]



From: SCITT <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Steve Lasker
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2022 8:21 PM
To: Orie Steele <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [SCITT] Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials



Very cool, Orie.

Love the sandbox experiments





From: SCITT <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Orie Steele
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2022 2:08 PM
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: [SCITT] Endor: A SCITT PoC for W3C Verifiable Credentials



I made this today:

https://github.com/OR13/endor<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1JdHGvnoZNb-fsV-unMzNkw21OKT7rRYo5H60Wa4K-Q4p7fB8jPlLTjzltfaxYOFnI68iv9RdZu4eeZzCvslBoPZThRfqgjbkIpAc_QAmXII8wXvclTmJp1PwWBck7W8vUKCgPgTPKwAgR4azwJsBLeLGe7E_NyiTmvg20gtS7omF01B7xzwXNs2jk4HRv9cwHQUOknpcyXaDoXN69mDdag7A6KlfSI3EnnlDQtYrlaKovDQmzajAmTkxfuCfWTP_pf0IHh1ylWT3YFkVxRBNLDyDNrCvdIUdSvpseyxcBy2VV7YxaRLm7g0FGZCbhIv6%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%252F%253Furl%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fgithub.com%25252FOR13%25252Fendor%2526data%253D05%25257C01%25257CSteve.Lasker%252540microsoft.com%25257C79cb3d326bec41bf51ac08da726fb0f1%25257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%25257C1%25257C0%25257C637948121310174010%25257CUnknown%25257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%25253D%25257C3000%25257C%25257C%25257C%2526sdata%253DGdRRD0aMpzOJQIcqCyhajcz2NXRZH4irlRR31FFausk%25253D%2526reserved%253D0&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775706779%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b8g0nbIGtiWMwt%2FbJ2e8zkOSWWT0RGL8aTJp8WSg9Vw%3D&reserved=0>

As it says in the readme, this is just a toy example I made up to experiment with.

The nice thing about endorsing W3C Verifiable Credentials is that they are already an abstraction that applies to "non software supply chain" use cases...

For example, we model cyber physical supply chain flows using them:

https://w3id.org/eability<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F12vv3ms4fQAlyFEE4k1zPXuwNVQhbw5JZJG1gBL6pcqttkVpsiI3zrO00D8muCuDxuryJz9JNlTjNav5jhFZwmrDOzf2g002uvnOa4j5zplIUKqg9fIr9y-JZ4w5q4mXJXza6z62EHNy6BzBsjPIluYavv0fR109auX6z1titrQhnW1fmk_usfbPqwJgY780ZABU5QTV12sZSiHaInC4MzZokObYCrnulteZlYaIml9emeQtOkK5mYExh0HK13aas-6VpgxE3PbRyBO3h9W_wUt3BpoaWT0QrjMaAM3NSTsiDsayitR5Pm48JR4E_wr_U%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fw3id.org%252Feability&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775706779%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fsRJDEB5o7tTMixhGRz5iB0eYrBU5472L7US8aQhvcU%3D&reserved=0>

There are a number of organizations looking at oil and gas, steel, ecommerce, and agriculture supply chains.

Often they will share some common trade documents such as Bills of Lading or Commercial Invoices.

These are examples of "SCITT Artifact Types" which you might expect to see across various distinct supply chain use cases.

However, as is the case with Oil and Gas needing to account for fluid dynamics, and software needing to account for compilers, build servers and various source files, there are cases where you may need to model components of a supply chain with Verifiable Credentials that are highly specific to the use case.

If you can tolerate modeling in RDF, W3C Verifiable Credentials come with a built in abstract data model that integrates well with existing industry ontologies such as:

- https://www.ebi.ac.uk/chebi/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1xFJzJsWalPbOckWorQVNuB3cCxcqr_4Pnqdh8BSqQrkm5N_-bHyC7w5_vXmkyt3-yiVfIj2Taw61Ngm4aT3AjD2Qv9jcxLAp632sCb0f7Z5opQ1IopQYFh035H3GJnum5M15fE7-kYGBh8eU24y4DJKQAGfZ6-2bMGAFBVdqq-7OCluOKHpJ7klc1xO775JEUod25j8sSRq32VCH023VBaqj9QgsfC-48IxN6LcJbg6jK3GgYWuUW9etiMl5z6YA0zskfxChMC6yEEFi8jPu3jPIy1SKm5Zu3HDbk7_-aS_gzJ-Kg45rGJrtq0L6Yh9Y%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%252F%253Furl%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebi.ac.uk%25252Fchebi%25252F%2526data%253D05%25257C01%25257CSteve.Lasker%252540microsoft.com%25257C79cb3d326bec41bf51ac08da726fb0f1%25257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%25257C1%25257C0%25257C637948121310174010%25257CUnknown%25257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%25253D%25257C3000%25257C%25257C%25257C%2526sdata%253DbXykuDkWeLmveTLjWO5zepwu20MQ5H8LIcQJyCaKN%25252BM%25253D%2526reserved%253D0&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775706779%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rfO%2BSOnmZkZ7E5OGI8N%2FNct6xjj6PZAwaXh%2BoOBxgtY%3D&reserved=0>
- https://qudt.org/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1wTZmUTRG0X-fSLt6dzZoQCNorRuSvOgI2Zkd9g1PT-Iict4ikGg0GMZvBAIgZsC1maaOAyMgHegWdFG3dXEcQrYKnrjpiOl7OWCtiRGcjVJC4W7PiyfkrkoEDMc-WVzXjqIc3RTjhCVEO2Hy1KcH5Xg8lqTshdNo9NGPllnHT63UctpLAAQ4N8tGBMfu3q7YUicxI0zcgap8yD60I8HL33SfI2MFnr2DphA42faHPK6e5mePI5N1MZuhmdt3ou2MvF4zqUj9xhZGwb3nRkquaaObQFWXt8G-nog2o8iwaQFLpUTsPJbOJlpOLnLalkAL%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%252F%253Furl%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fqudt.org%25252F%2526data%253D05%25257C01%25257CSteve.Lasker%252540microsoft.com%25257C79cb3d326bec41bf51ac08da726fb0f1%25257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%25257C1%25257C0%25257C637948121310174010%25257CUnknown%25257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%25253D%25257C3000%25257C%25257C%25257C%2526sdata%253DQOs%25252F5MIMJSm%25252BkqzHSSxV6MtsA4mOIzanJ6Vwtpl4NO8%25253D%2526reserved%253D0&data=05%7C01%7CSteve.Lasker%40microsoft.com%7C620664d7e9384a9e876908da7b9acc40%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637958202775706779%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=y6RFq954c3hb9dCHw08Akb1oSFFVyHKAwPHoD21Ij%2Bw%3D&reserved=0>

My main complaint against W3C Verifiable Credentials is the limitation to JSON representations, if we could represent RDF in CBOR, we would have the best of both worlds with the main remaining disadvantage being the namespace overhead inherent in RDF.

If you drop that, you will likely need some registry or algorithm process for handling collisions and interoperability, but there are various solutions to those problems.

If you feel I butchered any of the concepts or terminology, feel free to yell at me here or on github issues, as I said, I made this today, it's not reflective of actual SCITT architecture, it was just to explore the space.

Regards,

OS




--

ORIE STEELE

Chief Technical Officer

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ORIE STEELE
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