Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches
Tim Bruijnzeels <tim@nlnetlabs.nl> Wed, 26 August 2020 12:25 UTC
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From: Tim Bruijnzeels <tim@nlnetlabs.nl>
In-Reply-To: <20200826122539.52493813@glaurung.nlnetlabs.nl>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 14:25:33 +0200
Cc: Stephen Kent <stkent@verizon.net>, SIDR Operations WG <sidrops@ietf.org>
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References: <20200817163134.29aa1a6b@glaurung.nlnetlabs.nl> <c1a8fffb-9106-d08e-4254-44ddf1a0115a@verizon.net> <20200818083659.1922a98c@grisu.home.partim.org> <6cebcc89-3e07-8a85-3813-b4ae9887d119@verizon.net> <20200826122539.52493813@glaurung.nlnetlabs.nl>
To: Martin Hoffmann <martin@opennetlabs.com>
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Subject: Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches
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> On 26 Aug 2020, at 12:25, Martin Hoffmann <martin@opennetlabs.com> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > looks like you forgot to include the mailing list, so I’ll keep the > quote in full. > > Stephen Kent wrote: >> Martin, >>> Stephen Kent wrote: >>>> >>>> Are you positing the case where the cache contains an expired ROA >>>> for a CA instance, and a fetch that would have replaced the >>>> expired ROA fails? >>> No, I am talking about a case where the ROA can be fetched >>> successfully and matches the manifest hash, but its EE certificate >>> is expired. Section 6.4 says that "if [files] fail the validity >>> tests specified in [RFC6488]", the fetch has failed. Thus, the >>> expired EE certificate in the ROA fails the complete fetch of all >>> objects associated with the CA. >> Thanks for the clarification. >>> So, not replacing an expired ROA in a publication point makes the >>> entire CA not update anymore. I.e., any other objects that now >>> expire cannot be replaced until that ROA is also replaced. >> "not update anymore" is not how I would state the result. This fetch >> will fail. Because a failed fetch will be reported to the RP >> operations staff, hopefully they will contact the cognizant entity >> for the pub point in question, causing the error to be fixed. Them a >> subsequent fetch can succeed. > > That seems like an overly optimistic approach to the issue. Assume the > problem is created by a bug or, worse, design oversight in the CA > software. The turnaround from discovering the issue to deploying a fix > can easily be weeks with some vendors. During all that time, not only > can no ROAs be updated and may child CA certificates slowly expire, the > entire CA’s data will not be available at all for any newly deployed > relying parties. With containerised deployment, this is quite a serious > issue. > > As a consequence, this approach will make the routing system less > secure for, I’d like to argue, no actual gain. I believe that manifest should tell me that I have *all* *latest* objects. If there is stuff missing then rejecting the publication point is fine by me. But I have a problem with doing the same if invalid objects are found. In addition to what Martin said. This makes the system very brittle w.r.t. changes in resources. Suppose that I had received 10.0.0.0/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 on my certificate issued to me by my parent, and I created ROAs for both. Now my parent pro-actively removes 10.0.0.0/24 from my certificate but they have neglected to tell me in time. I see no reason why my ROA for 192.168.0.0/24 should now be considered invalid. And I remember that we had discussions in this WG advocating that separate ROAs are created for each prefix, precisely to prevent this kind of fate sharing. Tim
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Tim Bruijnzeels
- [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Martin Hoffmann
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Martin Hoffmann
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches George Michaelson
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Di Ma
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches George Michaelson
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Martin Hoffmann
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Randy Bush
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Tim Bruijnzeels
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Jay Borkenhagen
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Di Ma
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Tim Bruijnzeels
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Jay Borkenhagen
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Tim Bruijnzeels
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Tim Bruijnzeels
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Tim Bruijnzeels
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Tim Bruijnzeels
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Stephen Kent
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Christopher Morrow
- Re: [Sidrops] 6486bis: Failed Fetches Tim Bruijnzeels