[Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Explicit Operations
Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Thu, 05 April 2007 19:10 UTC
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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:10:14 -0500
From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Subject: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Explicit Operations
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Despite what appeared to be early agreement in the working group (and on the MIG mailing list) that we wanted to discourage the use of SUBSCRIBE and NOTIFY as general purpose RPC mechanisms. This is the primary objection that I have raised to draft-poetzl-sipping-call-completion, which uses SUBSCRIBE and NOTIFY to manipulate call queue state. In the spirit of sending text, I described an alternate set of mechanisms in draft-roach-sipping-callcomp-bfcp, which performs the same task without having implied side effects from the creation of a subscription. I'll further note that the use of SUBSCRIBE to both create a subscription and manipulate a call queue falls under the category of "one operation with two separate effects." We have a very poor institutional memory indeed if we cannot recall why operations of this nature are Really Bad Ideas (cf. REFER creating a subscription; REGISTER with call processing upload; and BYE with an "Also" header field). All of this notwithstanding, in Prague, there seemed to be a curious indifference to pursuing the path laden with such Really Bad Ideas. I suspect that this indifference is a result of the arguments raised so far against the mechanism I have proposed, which I have done little to refute so far (largely because I believed that the merits of a system with explicit operations were self-evident enough that the objections would seem trifling in comparison). As far as I can tell, the objections raised so far have fallen into three primary categories: 1. "The use of BFCP is troubling because, in a decomposed gateway, the BFCP goes to the Media Gateway, while the signaling goes to the Media Gateway Controller." This objection, raised on one of the slides during the SIPPING meeting on March 23rd as the official reason TISPAN rejected the approach, is based on a simple misconception. The BFCP goes wherever the SDP says the BFCP goes. In the case of a decomposed gateway, this could be the Media Gateway, the Media Gateway Controller, or any other random network-connected server that the Media Gateway Controller wants. I agree that it probably is most sensible to send it to the Media Gateway Controller, and this is trivial to achieve. 2. "In the case of PSTN interwork, there is no way to guarantee that the ISUP (or other) signaling from the PSTN side lands on the same gateway that the client has a BFCP connection to." This is true, and it is a relatively difficult problem to solve (not impossible, though; I proposed several potential solutions in San Diego). It is meaningless to raise it in objection to an alternate proposal, since it exists in almost precisely the same form in draft-poetzl-sipping-call-completion; and any solution that can be applied to one solution can be applied to the other. 3. "We don't want to add another protocol." I suspect this argument is the one that is receiving the most traction, probably because most of the people involved in the discussion are not familiar with BFCP. The protocol itself is very straightforward and extremely easy to implement. In fact, exclusively for the purpose of answering this email (and demonstrating this very point), I threw together a BFCP implementation sufficient for implementation of the Call Completion service described in draft-roach-sipping-callcomp-bfcp. It took me two hours, and compiles down to less than 4 kb of object code on an intel processor. It's attached to this message to help the participants in the conversation understand just how very little is being added to applications by this use of BFCP. So, is that it? The first two objections are simply red herrings, and the third is based on a misconception regarding the level of effort required to implement BFCP. Are we really going to down the path of doing things incorrectly over what amount to misunderstandings? /a P.S. In case anyone wants a more full-featured BFCP stack, I'll point to the confiance project on SourceForge, available under the Academic Freedom License, which is compatible with commercial development. See http://confiance.sourceforge.net/
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- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Explicit… Adam Roach
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Francois Audet
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Francois Audet
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Elwell, John
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Francois Audet
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Elwell, John
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Francois Audet
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Elwell, John
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: Various issues Dale.Worley
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dale.Worley
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Henning Schulzrinne
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Francois Audet
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Michael Hammer (mhammer)
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Michael Hammer (mhammer)
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Michael Hammer (mhammer)
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Michael Hammer (mhammer)
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Xavier Marjou
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Michael Hammer (mhammer)
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dale.Worley
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Vijay K. Gurbani
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dean Willis
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Elwell, John
- AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Huelsemann, Martin
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Elwell, John
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dale.Worley
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dean Willis
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Dean Willis
- AW: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Huelsemann, Martin
- Re: AW: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dean Willis
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … David R Oran
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- Re: AW: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense… Dale.Worley
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Xavier Marjou
- AW: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Huelsemann, Martin
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Dean Willis
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dean Willis
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Adam Roach
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… GARCIN S=?utf-8?B?w6k=?=bastien AERM
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Dean Willis
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dean Willis
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dean Willis
- Re: AW: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense… Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Dean Willis
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Adam Roach
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Dean Willis
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Dean Willis
- RE: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… GARCIN S=?utf-8?B?w6k=?=bastien AERM
- Re: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of Expl… Dean Willis
- AW: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense of … Huelsemann, Martin
- Re: AW: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: AW: AW: [Sipping] Call Completion: In Defense… Dean Willis