[Slim] Human-language Issue 26: Asterisk modifier scope

Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> Mon, 17 July 2017 16:54 UTC

Return-Path: <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: slim@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: slim@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B27127867 for <slim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:54:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UsBRCtfi3smN for <slim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ua0-x22f.google.com (mail-ua0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBF07131B48 for <slim@ietf.org>; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ua0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 35so55562281uax.3 for <slim@ietf.org>; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YcxY3J8QXZ3cs/a24FER/67nuQn11PYF0tmsQ0yxew8=; b=fs/fYp0+DUc3t6PmLc3T3j1mJU5lxubZSWPFIj5TqjACxpS8yaWPmHEVUV2yHg8alm PMg1WzIT9g91xNL7Jcar9ypz20uzq5R0yMm5Xu9z/dYmxfsYJTPUWUIF6ZupqrRjVgW+ Qo+p5RiD+/4BmosQ08EJCGihjQW7a/NtOJAmenyN3mvfOTLQHv9TvZpwwPyo5QqLOF6s M7YTnXeqE+96vK4r2cVJqPnWzBW8AH7r8m3po0U4T3ISRmQhS+ZdTH9TgctN12Slf/YC 6LwE6TSQOmrWjN4dIRyQ0f2ZJpYdxhZlPTdk6pVQsxGJjRj5LMaTng/wIWSnLXcLrvKF qkXw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YcxY3J8QXZ3cs/a24FER/67nuQn11PYF0tmsQ0yxew8=; b=dDOpG/KkTWGnbguE+NEG76VId5smCwXk82fiQXoXp1N7oFYgWfZPvYjY9bJLxQwlTY nxy9e1AddEa5qNM6Z6gakOEdPXkssc74EhAwZgXwOFza20ZyLkc1WCCo6m3tp/iA1Q87 Irzl5sfWU97xaWywaJxrigwGszlfb1xWU4zWBMjYXNUslOxNhBeDhY13DrZuy8c4YiHv 8OROFIEyUYLwwdtfEHAXRnqz0F8AM5jETZ+4D+CFcB5gUR5Wv+Klkb6Ze/KLEZexvjIY wLPnd8+HmBBbQy6hOtAWd9bffDr7HZcWCrJtndt9Ls0vKXArwkebXLJHQ0x1DpbfyWiE qfeQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110E6NW8AHLcCOUYYFdWTc+N9CAfzNaXulbOs6mtkJMYqEJ7FqNN 9iKaE0SZIX4QHN0QN/rtDUvAJEQbZqDRprE=
X-Received: by 10.159.48.69 with SMTP id i5mr14157201uab.106.1500310461471; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.159.35.80 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:54:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:54:00 -0700
Message-ID: <CAOW+2dv0dM+h4OG=iiE+PXakS88=tUj9YzqVB03R93P=FR-upA@mail.gmail.com>
To: slim@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045e34b41be28a0554864091"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/slim/4eOkh_lMDbpDqIlPQC-GYqgnezI>
Subject: [Slim] Human-language Issue 26: Asterisk modifier scope
X-BeenThere: slim@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Selection of Language for Internet Media <slim.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/slim>, <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/slim/>
List-Post: <mailto:slim@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim>, <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:54:25 -0000

Issue: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/26

The remaining open aspect of Issue 26 relates to the scope of  the "*".

Paul Kyzivat summarized the problem in his post on February 13, 2017 (see:
  https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/slim/current/msg00737.html)


   - The text needs to be improved simply to properly explain and define
   the syntax related to the "*" as you intend to use it.


   - the use of the "*" to indicate what it does is confusing. It is using
   a media level attribute "parameter" to signify a session level property.
   This has been brought up before, but simply rejected without (IMO) adequate
   justification. There seems to be some love for this particular syntax. ISTM
   that in part Gunnar is trying to adapt this syntax so that it both makes
   sense as a media-level attribute and simultaneously can satisfy the session
   level need that has been identified.

These concerns do not appear to have been addressed in
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language-13

Section 5.2 states:

   In an offer, a list of language tags MAY have an asterisk appended at
   the end.  An asterisk appended to any value in any media in an offer
   indicates a request by the caller to the callee to not fail the call
   if there is no language in common.  See Section 5.3
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language-13#section-5.3>
for more
   information and discussion.


Section 5.3 states:

   A consideration with the ability to negotiate language is if the call
   proceeds or fails if the callee does not support any of the languages
   requested by the caller.  This document does not mandate either
   behavior, although it does provide a way for the caller to indicate a
   preference for the call succeeding when there is no language in
   common.  It is OPTIONAL for the callee to honor this preference.  For
   example, a PSAP is likely to attempt the call even without an
   indicated preference when there is no language in common, while a
   call center might choose to fail the call.

   The mechanism for indicating this preference is that, in an offer, if
   the last token of any 'hlang-recv' or 'hlang-send' value for any
   media is an asterisk, this indicates a request to not fail the call.
   The called party MAY ignore the indication, e.g., for the emergency
   services use case, regardless of the absence of an asterisk, a PSAP
   will likely not fail the call; some call centers might reject a call
   even if the offer contains an asterisk.


Some questions that come to mind:

1. Does the inclusion of an * represent a request for the callee to not
fail the call based on an inability to negotiate a common language only for
the particular hlang-recv or hlang-send line that contains the "*"?

That is, if an "*" is included on some hlang-recv/send lines but not other
ones, would it tell the callee that it can fail the call if a
common-language can't be negotiated for the lines without an "*"?

-OR-

2. Does the inclusion of an "*" on any hlang-recv/send line imply the
inclusion of an "*" on other hlang-recv/send lines, either within a given
m-line or on other m-lines?


-OR-


3. To provide clarity, should the "*" merely be considered an indication
that the offerer will accept "any language"?  If so, should it be valid
only for hlang-recv lines and can an Answer respond with a * in its
hlang-recv line?