Re: [Spud] New Version Notification for draft-herbert-transports-over-udp-00.txt

[Michael Welzl <[e-mail]>]

Hi,

I still didn’t get to read the draft - apologies!  I probably like it  :-)   but I hope it allows putting multiple TCP connections under one single UDP 5-tuple.
Anyway, not speaking pro- or con- this draft, just a comment in line:


> On 22. mai 2016, at 05.03, Jana Iyengar <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Possibly unsurprisingly, I like this draft. I'd like to argue some of the choices made in the draft but I'll do that separately. For now, I just wanted to articulate a few thoughts as I caught up on this thread:
> 
> - The ship has sailed on new native-IP transports. I worked on SCTP for 6 years and tried and watched it get nowhere in terms of deployment over native-IP. It wasn't because it was in the kernel, it was primarily because of NATs and various middleboxes. Yes this is definitely my opinion, but arguing this point is silly. No new native IP transport has seen significant deployment over the internet over the past 20 years, and it's not for lack of trying.
> 
“The ship has sailed” and “it’s not for lack of trying” are both wrong IMO. How many applications have tried to use SCTP/IP and fallen back to TCP in case it doesn’t work? How many applications do you expect to change in order to get such a change to happen? And why should anyone expect someone designing or maintaining a router or middlebox to support native SCTP when they never even see the packets and never even hear anyone say “my application works better elsewhere because of SCTP” ?

This is what TAPS is trying to address. It’s a very deep architectural problem of the Internet - an inability to automate fall-backs, which unnecessarily burdens application developers. Rant, rant, rant, make me stop   :-)

Now all this being said, I also don’t fully get why some folks have such a big problem with running stuff over UDP. I’m not against doing that, if only as a temporary solution that would serve to convince people that the transport (option, ..) is useful.
In a TAPS world, it’s just another option to try…

Cheers,
Michael