Re: [tcpm] alternate IW proposal

Nandita Dukkipati <nanditad@google.com> Fri, 19 November 2010 00:54 UTC

Return-Path: <nanditad@google.com>
X-Original-To: tcpm@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E3D3A6407 for <tcpm@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:54:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -105.976
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p669qOe2EHn6 for <tcpm@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:54:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp-out.google.com (smtp-out.google.com [216.239.44.51]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143A23A63CB for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:54:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from wpaz24.hot.corp.google.com (wpaz24.hot.corp.google.com [172.24.198.88]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id oAJ0tchR020458 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:55:38 -0800
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; t=1290128139; bh=kkpFvV0x+AE5V15pRu1aum0hovg=; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=QtHur2GgoWJG5Htll4VynzSx8eTSpXBBZxnOjmtBjKUqUhqEYcDYa0KXeDgt8ktv2 z1duVPpM4m8tEpdCE8laA==
Received: from gxk4 (gxk4.prod.google.com [10.202.11.4]) by wpaz24.hot.corp.google.com with ESMTP id oAJ0sx9Z004785 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:55:37 -0800
Received: by gxk4 with SMTP id 4so2512665gxk.21 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:55:37 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=5FdXwk6y6elfko2nmJVgbGgOLQGIMfVNFsUNgGHEdYE=; b=p1IfpkCguzIk/l1wBkZjgTtbAwNTsil6S2NyC5frY8BlMoY39srzyaWt6h0qsmbJpR oD+p+ZtldbNT5pX6GXDA==
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=google.com; s=beta; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=CWjI+h+eTyhDTslGbfZjuoYaMosXMgU8lcNGkbofug+4166iDt/JOARFbM4OZtIG53 V/Ifpf+KzaBMNTYTrfqw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.91.45.16 with SMTP id x16mr1718781agj.15.1290128136964; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:55:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.55.19 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:55:36 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <4CE58F37.7000407@isi.edu>
References: <20101118202844.C3C7B2539D2E@lawyers.icir.org> <4CE58F37.7000407@isi.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:55:36 -0800
Message-ID: <AANLkTintqKPkNNnU8uC9p59ztz1PfOy1_oZ+D90-m00D@mail.gmail.com>
From: Nandita Dukkipati <nanditad@google.com>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0016363b823a51894204955d5dd5"
X-System-Of-Record: true
Cc: tcpm@ietf.org, "Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)" <ananth@cisco.com>, mallman@icir.org
Subject: Re: [tcpm] alternate IW proposal
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tcpm>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 00:54:52 -0000

...
>
>  Really? You can tell the difference between 1 second and 0.8
>>> seconds? or 1.2 seconds?
>>>
>>
>> Yep.  That's what they tell me.  I haven't run the tests, but yeah
>> that's the right order for human perception to start.
>>
>
> People can notice things down to about 200ms. That does NOT mean they know
> 1 vs 1.2 seconds, though - and definitely not 400 vs 500ms. We looked at
> this issue in the mid 90s when looking at web push systems.


Fortunately, we don't have to speculate on the impact of delay on user
behaviors. There are more recent (2009, 2010) studies that show that even
small latency increases, such as 100ms, have measurable impacts (obviously
negative) on user experience and perception.

These studies describe experiments and go on to quantify the impact of
delays ranging from 50-2000ms on user behavior, number of clicks, and such
other metrics.
* http://velocityconf.com/velocity2009/public/schedule/detail/8523
* http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2009/06/speed-matters.html

Other work along similar lines:
http://velocityconf.com/velocity2010/public/schedule/detail/13031
http://velocityconf.com/velocity2009/public/schedule/detail/7709
http://www.gomez.com/pdfs/wp_why_web_performance_matters.pdf

I think we can safely put to rest the question on whether IW10 benefits are
significant enough to warrant it to be standardized.

-Nandita


>
>
> Joe
> _______________________________________________
> tcpm mailing list
> tcpm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm
>