Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> Mon, 30 June 2014 22:33 UTC
Return-Path: <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34931A0B10; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 15:33:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -101.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z4YaMtRBhQ9i; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 15:33:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 294001A0ADE; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 15:33:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-fd-53b1916dedec
Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AF.77.25146.D6191B35; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 18:33:50 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 18:33:12 -0400
From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Strong Technology Dependency
Thread-Index: AQHPkExClaEuAYsfAkmaJiSeVAvEmZuIxghggAF5cuA=
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:33:12 +0000
Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
In-Reply-To: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9]
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426eusaamb103erics_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrHLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrG7exI3BBt1fBSwez13AarHi5GYm i3m7PjA5MHu0HHnL6rFkyU+mAKYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsErowXi50LprQxV9xc95u9gbHhD1MX IyeHhICJxIHWh6wQtpjEhXvr2UBsIYGjjBL/l+V1MXIB2csZJWZ/nssIkmATMJJ4sbGHHcQW EUiXeHRjK1Ccg0NYQFNiYnstRFhL4se3W6wQtpXEk+urwFpZBFQlOt7PBWvlFfCV2Na3gAVi /lNmiQeHO5lB5nAKhEk0LBUCqWEEuuf7qTVgdzILiEvcejIf6mYBiSV7zjND2KISLx//g7pf UWJf/3R2kDHMAvkSW3vLIVYJSpyc+YRlAqPILCSTZiFUzUJSBRHWlFi/Sx+iWlFiSvdDdghb Q6J1zlx2ZPEFjOyrGDlKi1PLctONDDcxAiPomASb4w7GBZ8sDzEKcDAq8fAqmG4MFmJNLCuu zD3EKM3BoiTOq1k9L1hIID2xJDU7NbUgtSi+qDQntfgQIxMHp1QDY29m6b0/390kwtiTNpRn 5mrkcMmsTLuimTkjoLmzYdqLMI0MD1edIpHXn/LPrhJa/iGt/HXPYZ1Njr86lgm96zdzmBE5 ++5RhfioffbbjdavOfHF8uofwylLXjo8e7bubl2mRphGsPo1dlVtV4Zpxvv/vdZj+fVk0/aW tX6Peb78Oq/a6fidQ4mlOCPRUIu5qDgRAKRcd7WBAgAA
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/3_A_PPHhrqwCd8I682JmrV-59PM
Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." <time.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/time>, <mailto:time-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/time/>
List-Post: <mailto:time@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:time-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time>, <mailto:time-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:33:17 -0000
Hi Qin, thank you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we’re agree on most so we can clip them and concentrate on few remaining. Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>> below. Regards, Greg From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 AM To: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Cc: Gregory Mirsky Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency […] Greg>Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no definition of Misconnection defect. [Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for end-to-end Connectivity Verification between two LERs. Therefore I think IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing? GIM>> I think of CV as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular defect and has clear definition of defect entry and defect exit criteria. LSP Ping verifies consistency between control and data plane. That, IMO, is close to CV but without definition of defect state is not the CV. [...] Greg>Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as for ICMP – do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD Echo doesn’t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop. [Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for end-to-end Connectivity Verification between two LERs. Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can provide CV. GIM>> Unlike LSP Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane vs. control plane. BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be accompanied with definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit conditions and how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So far applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in RFC 6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in MPLS-TP domains. […] Greg>MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD Greg>MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and extension to provide Source ID. [Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV? GIM>> I think of CV as optional mode that may be realized with the help of CC mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, there must be definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, CCM/ETH-CC or else (though not sure whether there’s anything “else”). Regards, Greg 发件人: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Qin Wu 发送时间: 2014年6月25日 16:06 收件人: time@ietf.org<mailto:time@ietf.org>; opsawg@ietf.org<mailto:opsawg@ietf.org> 抄送: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> 主题: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency Hi, Mohamed: Thanks for details review to problem statement draft http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00 and update I sent to you. Regarding strong technology dependency issue, Section 4.2 gives an address scheme example to explain why the existing OAM mechanism has strong Technology as follows: “ Addressing scheme is a good example for an issue that has a high price for being non-generic. Ping of IPv4 and IPv6 looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP indication field, but they have the same OAM functionalities. ” You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph. I think what this paragraph said is For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] use different IP technology but share the same OAM function. But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for strong technology dependency. I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share the same OAM functionality, i.e., Path Discovery. Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share the same functionality, i.e., continuity check. The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by various existing OAM protocols. |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ | |Continuity | Connectivity| Path | Performance| | | Check | Verification| Discovery | Monitoring | +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ | | | | | | | ICMP | | Echo(Ping) | Traceroute | | | | | | | | +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ | | | | | | | BFD | BFD | BFD Echo | | | | | Control | | | | +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ | LSP | | | | - Delay | | Ping | | Ping | Traceroute | - Packet | | | | | | Loss | +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ | | | | | | | IPPM | | | | | | | | | | | |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ | MPLS-TP| | | | | | OAM | CC | CV | Traceroute | -Delay | | | | | | -Packet | | | | | | Loss | +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ Hope this clarifies. Regards! -Qin 发件人: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] 发送时间: 2014年6月24日 22:13 收件人: Qin Wu 主题: RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90 Hi Qin, Please find attached a first set of comments. Cheers, Med
- [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- [Time] Issue of OAM information Information gathe… Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information g… Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Huub van Helvoort
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency Tom Taylor
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency Huub van Helvoort
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Huub van Helvoort
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information g… Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- [Time] 答复: Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information g… Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information g… Gregory Mirsky