Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Sun, 14 June 2015 02:05 UTC
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References: <201506111558.21577.davemgarrett@gmail.com> <201506132044.48381.davemgarrett@gmail.com> <CABcZeBO2h20DyrnmSOVFyO=sHRD2UEczziCdjRJxXx_yZmTG+w@mail.gmail.com> <201506132115.36615.davemgarrett@gmail.com>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:04:46 -0400
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To: Dave Garrett <davemgarrett@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation
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On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Dave Garrett <davemgarrett@gmail.com> wrote: > On Saturday, June 13, 2015 08:54:10 pm Eric Rescorla wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Dave Garrett <davemgarrett@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > PSK suites could be replaced with a PSK SignatureAlgorithm codepoint in > > > “signature_algorithms” extension. (this was suggested by someone at > some > > > point on this list, but I don't remember where that discussion was, > offhand > > > > I don't see how this is going to work. All of the PSK cipher suites use > the > > PSK as a source of keying material > > A client proposing the PSK SignatureAlgorithm codepoint and a PSK identity > would be offering to negotiate PSK using that key. > But again, PSKs in TLS use it as a source of keying material, not just authentication. So, using that as a SignatureAlgorithm seems... weird. -Ekr Anon would be proposed the same way, just with a null PSK identity. All > security comes from the FS from (EC)DHE. (just like (EC)DH_anon) > > The server could simply state acceptance of negotiation by echoing back > the same PSK extension. > > > > With the above, ECDHE_ECDSA becomes the one-true-prefix. > > > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, but I don't > understand > > this point. Certainly I don't see any significant support whatsoever for > > deprecating RSA signatures, and given that we just standardized FFDHE, I > don't see much > > evidence of consensus for deprecating DHE either. > > This is all in the context of the proposal discussed in this thread. RSA > signatures would be negotiated using the "signatures_algorithms" extension. > DHE would be negotiated via the "named_groups" extension. (pick an FFDH > group for FFDHE or an ECDH curve for ECDHE) The point is to negotiate any > of the following via those two extensions and the ECDHE_ECDSA prefix: > DHE, ECDHE, RSA, DSS/DSA, ECDSA (or EdDSA), PSK (or anon) > > This would give us fewer suites with no new extensions beyond those > already proposed. Just need to use the already proposed extension additions > and add a codepoint for PSK/anon. > > > Dave >
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Hubert Kario
- [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- [TLS] ECDH_anon I-D (was: A la carte handshake ne… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Manuel Pegourie-Gonnard
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Kyle Rose
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Kyle Rose
- Re: [TLS] A la carte handshake negotiation Peter Gutmann