IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes

Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Wed, 27 July 2022 14:30 UTC

Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B91FC13C229 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 07:30:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.83
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.83 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=UMOnuHMJ; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Vo6QFX6l
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dzjMRGyZ5KYa for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 07:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20FA0C1CC90A for <tls@ietf.org>; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 07:27:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46A875C01FC; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 10:27:11 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imap41 ([10.202.2.91]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 27 Jul 2022 10:27:11 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1658932031; x=1659018431; bh=jx ebMGMdHp1WMvB0b8wk4r6m2XwjDhWaDxF6Z9K17QM=; b=UMOnuHMJy7eVWjnOvC 1OsLZgfgGv4OAY++W8FqTxG0I32bB1+it60OrAjcF68BRSpWwY+yvthhk1EZSr/K wyqSgMU+ZJYz9R0oV3rCciTYbcpTryFD/fi2846wqfjcEtDCNUGf1m40Qi+uBIH1 kvzVmQME4U9ifLqkUby/kjtdx0YebIvQ3ssCBk1KXLRd9+z8BE5Voje+W6N3C770 2rjNBkByj6dx8rGqgWZNKngI3Q0y4oAwU9BdYjjCsTxI1v4x9Qoo/ojR2hUzAlTc 5lYTrN96jqMqvKQIXbNF2Jc6d1MOzNLDmIfiL8TCJ0zXpXFspbaUof9S5AtV8qdJ y0CQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm3; t=1658932031; x=1659018431; bh=jxebMGMdHp1WMvB0b8wk4r6m2Xwj DhWaDxF6Z9K17QM=; b=Vo6QFX6lD+sJcgfElPZVL0Hgnu/JAoaq6kPPV+zFvoZO Ri4IFgjCtmhMWU6HGWWLD7Frw1aY4WkaF35/0XkgnK+JCILFWeC6Rzt5waSpRbH7 /fzWtMbtRJUrE2gQToD2OUJ+L6yyH0g672wVf8MgSIbBvrBQ4uyVTIKmOCmVnmS9 JBs4pDVgiJysSzu/3C0YCW/QTQWI2xEw1FYynOe9KLFs2rmqRfdDtYbhQumRKx3b M6haBq046KJwpWnMBEO1OQq50LJ8Qh4SO9w83TtSeIken9c+9QX/cIrd373KafrG 30ujzl2xFCDvveNlkhasVZq6O0ud/yYeJJDoOcC4ZA==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:P0vhYny3WrYSHfmAnliKz3xJMdAvK5d8cWCMEDXxwtle-k-tkKmRrA> <xme:P0vhYvSjvxuic-3v3fB732wKoA1mgId7mWJabxxDIPneP1BCDUpGTwUyiqt5SgqH0 TT0Dig3-7iN-ivso6M>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrvdduvddgjeeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgr rhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenuc ggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduleeufedthfegieeiieekkeejvdejgfevudffgeefvdffleev feekudeiieekleenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfh hrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvght
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:P0vhYhVfNrLUfq-fLBXdu0uB2_xf_FHq0_7KM1k7MmgPEM53GqDpyA> <xmx:P0vhYhjG0tyt5q2kQ5nZZ0Xt7oi7n50sG-luDKwNujFp82CCROjSZw> <xmx:P0vhYpCsGw4LRQ4cr4wN1HJutUO3N69ojZyQu3pMK_VJG6C3cgKwFg> <xmx:P0vhYk_hkEhFqkDWuSpqRg57M1brwRL0CiTNAtctzeNGh1GkFpiVfg>
Feedback-ID: ic129442d:Fastmail
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 03758234007E; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 10:27:11 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.7.0-alpha0-757-gc3ad9c75d3-fm-20220722.001-gc3ad9c75
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <c565e55d-afe5-4e37-9a27-beeff3b1b831@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <acfb870ed4a9461e8b3861a50b346797@amazon.com>
References: <CABzBS7nsbEhR-bmHG_ViSJFSH-0_5p0O3vKndS4+wFR=iGQzhw@mail.gmail.com> <dafc791e-2224-6af1-ae16-7d6996ea8008@cs.tcd.ie> <9f6b11ba-3649-42bb-87e9-1015be3dc84b@www.fastmail.com> <acfb870ed4a9461e8b3861a50b346797@amazon.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 10:26:49 -0400
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: "Kampanakis, Panos" <kpanos@amazon.com>
Cc: "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/s3NHMMi-LgTInfoY3ZZD5Nph_Mc>
Subject: Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 14:30:53 -0000

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, at 22:21, Kampanakis, Panos wrote:
> Why are 2-3 packet CHs unworkable?

Loss probability is a contributing factor for sure, but the thing that really hurts is the extra round trip that many servers will induce when they cannot process the TLS ClientHello in one go.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email