Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange sizes
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Sat, 06 August 2022 17:53 UTC
Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47B2C159487 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 6 Aug 2022 10:53:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.009
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9POADfqS0olC for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 6 Aug 2022 10:53:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr20121.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.2.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2417C159482 for <tls@ietf.org>; Sat, 6 Aug 2022 10:53:32 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=M8ofTLC5iicteDOUN7nwJBpg0u6/wi/u14G5034R9aHbrUDhsQS9sIowBynvA4WhgTp9pokQJ5pCLYxyG2/QQpgcIhyzoHR2VsnLFHB9jt7jWlUaGS9jxEIZ3sQY1Twzlrd5K8ZXF2eBeCn5qaK/rDayclEXQq4sgmmG3NOTuibJgOMDHuBgr5Zvf+naS2GppoilkzSxQurum6ke2oZGj/qntMLzW96tvp387/qUtAOUhoSeh1LOHTiBV+Q+XB7ctI1O2GD9wyQ2mr+aruSwwHcpA6R570WfVOw0Pmg8qfDDZLYQlvwTiQ0KQfcf3IjdRmgygo0ej2qdZhoInzObHQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=xdVfWPWrfI04LEqy6lGEamcrfblehE+IJN6yRLxRE0s=; b=MAnLcU0+U5moGXtOFQ+jVldxxkYEPy528gXlGgMlmK49Bz7JXAFLAETTTftdln3SB7ItE9KHggcMmHYYdU6oDoGITLw/pEPKjMDT1nFQPon4lU7UYRRbzH+OikKsRodkhLY5lbhOGdCHIdo7eePUSfcJtyxbozQl+q+IwcQKdo99ahDw/Ie6ycskxuGy+E8hR3VqJJGH4LCA89BBMwtVdqxaK12m7z7WWxcyrbf1VegJWwbNKiRs9BqM4VdPirJSvmM9ugDhru4MDacjuQSSgKAoN9fU8Do/TiPT9n5Aw4PCD7uNTDTIXbeFVXrbcFONdEpNoK3N8FSzzdNnXTMuBg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cs.tcd.ie; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; dkim=pass header.d=cs.tcd.ie; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=xdVfWPWrfI04LEqy6lGEamcrfblehE+IJN6yRLxRE0s=; b=mjC20bZMHCb7+yKsth82jUOiAFlZuzNQOgWMHHOtpaOqLzKl2+sWtKV/AXfRdpwvq30Rk64gBeNqvNf/ITHu6knFh8fRpsXOsWsQ0uxgOko1cVrZQjlPMeQFwypsf4ANvm6xMmHpv6wLhhH08P5Lrcdc/ocFhW6AOAVoqtYFFCfFStPJ4jPniPmpu9T3lvABZoV8/JBzCEd0TcX9yeKQs+mRgAJKr09tZ0jTwpLPGykZxBB/BKnBIFqcyX1sykiu2W0h6ufZ13kJE508FYgkIIKAho4co8rXi6TwSj6MYIKmmnYoTAS60/i82qBIX4+I6dCquFbo1vlW6lPgBRhiJw==
Authentication-Results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie;
Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) by VI1PR02MB4288.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:83::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5504.17; Sat, 6 Aug 2022 17:53:27 +0000
Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::34b5:c457:b614:b0ac]) by DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::34b5:c457:b614:b0ac%7]) with mapi id 15.20.5504.016; Sat, 6 Aug 2022 17:53:27 +0000
Message-ID: <7b8fee1c-686b-5202-d639-af34aa19ebff@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2022 18:53:25 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <ietf@hallambaker.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <bkaduk@akamai.com>
Cc: "Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)" <sfluhrer=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, tls@ietf.org
References: <CABzBS7nsbEhR-bmHG_ViSJFSH-0_5p0O3vKndS4+wFR=iGQzhw@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+LwgAzb4t=awzpU4Sb5j7Bf6DuR3u+23n+h_C3Pnsin-SHg@mail.gmail.com> <CH0PR11MB544479BFF3107C532AD75172C1619@CH0PR11MB5444.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <20220806051105.GP3579@akamai.com> <CAMm+LwhwKW6vmy7vu6Q_8Bg-CNtJyzgPJhKEzo9gP85ktnk75g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
In-Reply-To: <CAMm+LwhwKW6vmy7vu6Q_8Bg-CNtJyzgPJhKEzo9gP85ktnk75g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------1wXELAQ1qDsdXke0IJdH6Ywu"
X-ClientProxiedBy: DB8P191CA0007.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:10:130::17) To DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: a9a4c4ff-5d1f-4ba0-50ac-08da77d49097
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: VI1PR02MB4288:EE_
X-MS-Exchange-SharedMailbox-RoutingAgent-Processed: True
X-TCD-Routed-via-EOP: Routed via EOP
X-TCD-ROUTED: Passed-Transport-Routing-Rules
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230016)(4636009)(39860400002)(136003)(366004)(346002)(376002)(396003)(2616005)(41300700001)(6512007)(31696002)(6506007)(53546011)(86362001)(38100700002)(33964004)(83380400001)(186003)(21480400003)(66476007)(5660300002)(235185007)(786003)(316002)(31686004)(110136005)(66946007)(66556008)(8676002)(4326008)(8936002)(6486002)(478600001)(45080400002)(44832011)(2906002)(36756003)(43740500002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: cs.tcd.ie
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a9a4c4ff-5d1f-4ba0-50ac-08da77d49097
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Aug 2022 17:53:27.3641 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d595be8d-b306-45f4-8064-9e5b82fbe52b
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: OEPZBXrL/RybOwfcjV9HXEqEKOzQGUF109Ss/TokEkqOHsVt1VIrSO57v1ICze68
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR02MB4288
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/wTQc7Fndn2hliMwTTONnL3P-dMI>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange sizes
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:53:37 -0000
On 06/08/2022 17:47, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > Are you proposing pure Kyber or a hybrid though? I've not heard anyone suggest securing an IETF protocol only via PQC algs. It'd be incredibly dim to make that suggestion IMO, esp now that two of the 3rd round entries have been busted. So I'm not worried that we'd even come close to landing there for TLS. S.
- [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Thom Wiggers
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Kampanakis, Panos
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Kampanakis, Panos
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Kampanakis, Panos
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Bas Westerbaan
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] PQC key exchange sizes Sofía Celi
- [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange sizes Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Sofía Celi
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Bas Westerbaan
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Sofía Celi
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Sofía Celi
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Sofía Celi
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Robert Relyea
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Before we PQC... Re: PQC key exchange s… Thom Wiggers