Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG option
Derek Fawcus <dfawcus+lists-tsvwg@employees.org> Tue, 12 March 2019 10:47 UTC
Return-Path: <dfawcus@employees.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64949127968 for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 03:47:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 37e6jmG9EmbT for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 03:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bugle.employees.org (accordion.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D821C129A85 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 03:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by bugle.employees.org (Postfix, from userid 1736) id C6EEDFECC035; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:47:19 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 11:47:19 +0100
From: Derek Fawcus <dfawcus+lists-tsvwg@employees.org>
To: tsvwg@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20190312104719.GA1137@bugle.employees.org>
References: <CACL_3VE1=0OORUuOKg9GjcdVuhBNTkWhymE7PAs5WYO0ZR0DWQ@mail.gmail.com> <2C035E8C-A59F-4523-9B8D-BBA573C6DEFB@strayalpha.com> <CACL_3VGQo2ObRohJysQ=oWE4fZ1S6MCrytZQZYweuvKToJs_tw@mail.gmail.com> <36A94382-699D-4F8E-BF49-C48D7D784ACC@strayalpha.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <36A94382-699D-4F8E-BF49-C48D7D784ACC@strayalpha.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.1 (2018-12-01)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/5dcOCqFQrul7Bj4vD34sMe56HLQ>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG option
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:47:22 -0000
On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 06:08:51AM -0400, Joe Touch wrote: > That is lite alone only AFAICT. And we already know that is the risk CURRENTLY. > > Again, we need to include fixing these errors. If we let every bug persist, nothing would be deployable anymore. The way I view it is that we need to get a useful sub-set of the UDP-Options deployable, and that would break the chicken-vs-egg situation which prevents getting other systems fixed. So if say LITE alone requires that systems be fixed (which I think it will due to not wanting to checksum the LITE data, yet needing the packet to be checksum neutral), while sending segmented large UDP packets (the current LITE+FRAG case) can be made to work in the face of the broken systems, we shoukd do so. I think that addition, namely restoring the ability to send large (> pMTU) UDP payloads, which has been somewha broken by NATing of IP fragmented UDP is worthwhile, and probably sufficient to bootstrap UDP-Options. It is also an improvment on the IP fragmented case in that it each FRAG has port information. So we can probably make every use except the pure LITE data case deployable, making them deployable should eventually result in systems being fixed, such that pure LITE is usable. DF
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Derek Fawcus
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Raffaele Zullo
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Derek Fawcus
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Derek Fawcus
- [tsvwg] Possible UDP-Option: Cookie Derek Fawcus
- Re: [tsvwg] Possible UDP-Option: Cookie Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Possible UDP-Option: Cookie tjw ietf
- Re: [tsvwg] Possible UDP-Option: Cookie Derek Fawcus
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Possible UDP-Option: Cookie Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG o… Gorry Fairhurst