Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG option

Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> Tue, 19 March 2019 01:34 UTC

Return-Path: <tom@herbertland.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF39130EB9 for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IB7GKyvvgQni for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:34:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qt1-x829.google.com (mail-qt1-x829.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::829]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74B531277D8 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:34:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qt1-x829.google.com with SMTP id v20so20353035qtv.12 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:34:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=X0MPWoSDP143wasjwwlCnVP+mZIdd7SuiL9yswh1TmQ=; b=KSg5A0er0XFAa5pJF0JOwNViSJEQhUL5awrK0mJpzW9gDTPl9Lo3m/41PyvXFsBlpd 8hHr/moiNUoRzdMatVYQTQKEHRWorqtZMpFOSAAyzk0H8XKXNIZNPOpuDxqEHndGwWpn 430PKBXUoAvCtWXyXkmyGk+6o+aAqt+380cdMKvN3c9S20ILqsis52o5GfcuFqpVawsS U/fJLog6V4zV2jwPSPrJx5kUXXncLPg6KPA9XZY1uPKelh/asJYxnPaFY2G5heERgHpy pvhEdqxPVZUKT0Dg/tT9MQTtYNTFNgjPLO6n/TN3umMf27Y941xPeclUZgH935kNhVUs DW4w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=X0MPWoSDP143wasjwwlCnVP+mZIdd7SuiL9yswh1TmQ=; b=AkeJI8q3CGLNRnC8G5yfy1PVEhWIGqc5rjjA3xKFvJFBGG2mbQvkPYaFpegCzwOXaK GbEcoDehYiKZ9QD0zMLJgXOXfN8x7bDyySVL1XPyF36AccvWTLQIoubYQifFc28mnenm /u/CEg1SauQe1p8tz4jtZPRuw7Ih3nrBjoa1HyPzTBBdMNDI1QqgFzNancAJ7jAY8FCI sbEodMWYI8jH7CxKdVnyeAR3W1UX+v0S5NpFX14CsDbT9c1O8zFc+HqXpJrd7IdSBPD/ lpKqWvGfoKtIkB87NFLhlOWyS00L/rLs9fVYWwJBdf9uYMRwW6asXlzr8d4kSi6as7P0 GWZw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWijtEg+SmdHkJnGaQfyS4SnFa0DvL+QSknMcNDDpONy66btM4I YmKJmhcnV42yv0eFI9UvcvuQYbV7t266Jexrzeh09Kyc
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxLjbFXUOXYqtGF6SMalFDMV2UpGzEpGMEX5naC/79ppuZCmJNAKIk+2sqo8OsuVpBpTNwPhX5N//pgLmgiNeQ=
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:c407:: with SMTP id r7mr15407613qvi.22.1552959250107; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:34:10 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CACL_3VE1=0OORUuOKg9GjcdVuhBNTkWhymE7PAs5WYO0ZR0DWQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S37y_AbESyX5PcCSu7NEr-uPVrPXksEeAx5aSNAyqshL6Q@mail.gmail.com> <CACL_3VFJTxM3s-GLOTz9xmkNk1uOQoCmAGApbAf1ZgbH3Opptw@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S36aWKHFXO=Zx8W-wFqqC5-Oueb3j-b9evm-yKpfguVQuw@mail.gmail.com> <5C8FBBED.7000805@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <CALx6S34FKNJ_6Ep659L3t_Kf4bnEKZ5LTjXo-zWz4PrveU_UVA@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S37MsCmOOsn0bnHoTwJkN7Khfm03z__W4hhy7c29XuvQHw@mail.gmail.com> <5C8FDEED.8010701@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <CALx6S36fQcRdgvCG3XS78EecFjdb36D22iBzovXcODH_W+BHbg@mail.gmail.com> <5be88c76-d65a-c491-86be-74a52fef7687@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <5be88c76-d65a-c491-86be-74a52fef7687@strayalpha.com>
From: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:33:58 -0700
Message-ID: <CALx6S35h+ANRpqrEyC97JocXUrDw_+b85a8bP7QgjSchMPXF-g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
Cc: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000743eb0058468808e"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/6pnVfWFG3H7lsoP2OWTG5FivHOM>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Alternative version of the UDP FRAG option
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 01:34:14 -0000

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 5:32 PM Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to catch up with all the proposals and create a summary.
>
> That said:
>
> 1) the notion of soft state and its impact on the protocol is already
> mentioned in the draft, as are its limitations
>
>
> Joe,

Is a normative description of UDP option negotiation forthcoming?

2) we definitely need to stick to some design principles. Some are
> already proposed in the draft, but the discussion of late has strayed
> far afield of those. In particular, the draft already has a list of
> rules for when to drop packets based on various option properties.
>

But other existing standard protocols that have options already use a
certain set design principles (like skip option bit in HBH and dest
options). It's not clear to me at least why those aren't being followed.

Tom


> If we want to reopen that can of worms, so be it - but until we do, we
> need to operate within those parameters. That includes rules for when to
> drop (largely determined by receiver configuration of a socket, never
> determined by what a sender adds or a flag in the fields).
>
> Joe
>
>