Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-08
Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> Mon, 08 November 2010 09:18 UTC
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Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:18:53 +0800
To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
From: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-08
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At 10:48 AM +0800 11/8/10, Magnus Westerlund wrote: >Also, STARTTLS is not the only way of using TLS on a joint port. If you >can de-mux TLS requests and unsecured ones on the same port without >needing an initiation command then things would work differently. True. Is that done in any IETF protocols? I know people thought about this, but I thought they all had rejected it, but I easily could have missed something. >Also, I don't see why the security considerations for STARTTLS like the >man in the middle isn't similar for operation over two ports. If you can >fiddle with the packet in flight, you can probably block or interfere >with the TLS setup also. Thus forcing fallback to unsecure. Dang, I wish we had documented this decision tree in RFC 3207. There is a *huge* difference here. If the protocol has an upgrade/downgrade option, the state machine needs to have at least one place for the server to decide whether or not it wants a downgrade as well as at least one "has this client upgrade it yet?" place. With two ports, you just don't turn on the unsecured port. > > > >> I also think reserving ports for old protocols is a bad idea. We have no > >> immediate shortage of ports, if I remember Joe's calculations correctly > >> our current consumption rate would result in run out for TCP in around > >> 50 years. Thus reserving for this purpose seems strange, as the > >> protocols that do truly need a second port can get one. So to avoid > >> sending a message, that I don't want to send nor reserve ports when not > >> needed I think this idea should be skipped. > > > > We fully agree here. If there is anything in my proposed wording that suggested that all old protocols get a second port without asking, I am happy to change it. To date, I haven't heard of anyone in the Apps area who wanted this. > > > >No, I didn't mean to imply that they would get it without asking for it. >But I do know understand your intention with the reservation. I think we >can probably get the statistics without having a special range. If we >want a disincentive by using a range that is another question. If we can get statistics such as "number of second ports for application protocols in the past three years", that would be great. --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium
- Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Eliot Lear
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Eliot Lear
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Eliot Lear
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Joe Touch
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Joe Touch
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Joe Touch
- Re: Security issues with draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-po… Joe Touch