Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs
Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> Thu, 07 November 2019 13:06 UTC
Return-Path: <moeller0@gmx.de>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E61A7120816 for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:06:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.648
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.648 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VJ-Qr6AOuodm for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:06:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C85712003F for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 05:06:15 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1573131970; bh=ENNe1TnIzlQLtjRmAaQ068VRzqX3Cjurz60I9rquUJY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=ahrufRFOqGwsNb8v3a+hLnoW5N9FhUoNwQavxz6NLEYhBy3cw2ihaP/BHv0e3Gnle iBrF36vJiXQPWxeT3GB42uuix3ifhAifG0xMRmDKhgmxioPmRvLSHZr4V+B1XDZToc QglR3HYaTeXUv9lzSVOKVsU+IYEKtW/2EMX6AMwE=
X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c
Received: from [10.11.12.33] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M1poA-1iUuPh4BOi-002H3T; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 14:06:10 +0100
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\))
From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
In-Reply-To: <D5D560CB-BC47-45BE-811E-E73E2D4909E3@cablelabs.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2019 14:06:07 +0100
Cc: Pete Heist <pete@heistp.net>, Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <2474226C-DDD9-4E89-942D-78E42E2834F1@gmx.de>
References: <8321f975-dfe7-694c-b5cc-09fa371b9b61@mti-systems.com> <B58A5572-510E-42C7-8181-42A0BE298393@gmail.com> <D2E12331-F504-4D5F-B8E7-A1A5E98DDF7E@cablelabs.com> <2275E6A5-C8F8-477F-A24A-3E6168917DDF@gmail.com> <55F724CD-6E74-40D9-8416-D1918C2008DD@cablelabs.com> <BBE7C7A9-0222-4D84-BF27-8D5CAE2F995E@gmail.com> <6f189711-ffa0-90f4-fd16-3464ba4df3ce@mti-systems.com> <4A706B11-3239-4DAC-BE85-0B4BFF2D8FF8@heistp.net> <8B28ECE4-FF4B-4BB2-ACBE-80B30708F97E@cablelabs.com> <AAEA9AC2-B8A1-4837-A7C9-8EEA21A7C523@gmx.de> <D5D560CB-BC47-45BE-811E-E73E2D4909E3@cablelabs.com>
To: Greg White <g.white@CableLabs.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11)
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:j1BuuyemhbLe/4McUo2BIw5yaIllyB+mJgKgUuB8X/pBQ8X7U6y EwppVnnmpSZQ0WIpp2ALltFDD2MLWdUcaKw30kPBu4khd6+EI/iMFbDPX6k7yMSHSxfTxgt 1xT+JkrenD3j5xMxmSQzGeSIlRqPMtckliGWOM084GxUm03I7tNxwMPLoLpxwavI5BEVcYv RT/7Ipz2gGqO2d1btppbA==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:MqpOjeNROYk=:IqN84J778tAZmREWMVNKUz 6FwOYRGed8gJuVnWe7/ENmji0Z6EQ8bxxdsmurkrkhMoi6OFRQQJGw73NfKKme5AUoUks+ixG Kx7ygljez3B7VgzuyK+wenrHLTEXl4AGuU3xyN4ZyS7SvGABeeJc6HubS4CM/OTb3p/LWzjhg eeP3xLsIVSvGAmMgA76nzGusV/0hlOfcqupwoXKdQ3JJHYsYqb1vRcUBW38Z/Lt7DC/5J/3Fh MO8rvizlvYhLJF/xZg1cEIVQL0Q0CPTb7MxLOY27/YB/ImunbNVpGsJDXtmSlgyPD9EEhYyUX FaPCPfav8JVnAo/JsgTgnQ98A2broDbhzf5rf0ARjlLPtREQ4YlK9P8O+ho/PUP+CLw4bU7sE FsPMJ+SfRxV60WzPTBFHKsNS8gfyKIeFHxeAv1Nr6izflf/CWpifk2wAeRoOtVhlywHA3167C WY2IPnEklpfp+CX+LEOmmEjaeS2UNSTnvusu7qFg1OsRqo4BTXJUrLR0UWYpTAM9FYSQPlrpr EcGkvWJ8ci3uTmxhzk6ShIUNZApRn+TtkcvhI7YMD/DkNT+sUAWHL9XREUPYZYVg+XMUu1T4j fC4gDWbSZH/Rt4bmXZVvFg8KoWzIKcCfacoWRrRFvE3A4I+JhoE15+2+SDwWgTyz8neZBi/un yuZ+X/wViE6J8y2RqLufvho1xVlSaMW8fEXSalpqqZv8GTOtfrVuamyZbhK+tHmLZNpIAxTG1 YSUKIFPbln+CfWNnmdPyy6ex0TTWkrq/FPYlr7XBPAi1ZJPuA3snog1kQ5aQ9Hct+stjR3amF Im8LMUx7PYY9DWynkB0Rfotxqxk2DYOvYNUnC6VglGG2BD3ExKFzz85ttmkXCPCTW/ZzUac1c pXsl69k8lvUxAwRBtZ23tk7bkzGLuDgcvVaziAZVcO2gHXi1gIploVkPB9iKlz24iUck2A7MV P20Za2X4RkFYDapB3G582B+Z0Y4MzgHncH8uFSB/Wtb61RZrntyGByMz1ZDRZCy1tRx7+5gUE QpAJqtz50RHN6reUE+yFPYE7sfxYaIRkWtZzKGq4O8B0qDjroz64fnSvGGIikukE/zh6voFnx STNQJ79qRg/AUaryk/+v9ajJ2dWcWqgxNMqPb4GNzHPUxADpZmvKZkkKib8Q5s0Dzbs7/kQ53 d+PythR9ZhPUzt4svnC4sEfCRPBkDLr4gsHSEQp4ACC1rDtF2VVc8oZAsLEDc/uKgrVoMTYXf jn0mamfA5tK+2SPhgxfaYi02MEcWkcS42KeUdoA+m8mU5LO08iWNIWsYthG0=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/oxSSgojEkKK3G6ZMAwMbKQt_xt8>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2019 13:06:19 -0000
Hi Greg, great that you found this "bug". But this also indicates to me that basically all testing for the L4S project needs to be repeated, since at least early tests were performed with DCTCP and it is clear that DCTCP and TCP Prague are not bug-to-bug compatible. I wonder whether the proper order of things might not be: a) finalize and stress-test at least one TCP Prague implementation b) write a RFC describing TCP Prague c) wait for acceptance of that RFC d) introduce the next L4S related drafts again Starting with d) before at least a) is achieved does not strike me as terribly efficient, as if a) should prove elusive d) would not need to be retracted? Best Regards Sebastian > On Nov 6, 2019, at 17:23, Greg White <g.white@CableLabs.com> wrote: > > Good timing __ > > We've just wrapped up our findings on Issue 17, and have posted them here (along with some comments on Issue 16 as well): > > https://l4s.cablelabs.com > > (Note, the ns3 repo is not public yet, but will be shortly. We'll update that page with links within a day or two.) > > In summary, we reached the following conclusions: > > - the main result of concern was due to a bug in initializing the value of TCP Prague alpha, which has been fixed and demonstrated to resolve the latency impact that was spanning multiple seconds > > - the remaining short duration latency spike in the FIFO queue is seen in *all* congestion control variants tested, including BBRv1, NewReno, and Cubic, and is not specific to Prague > > - if the CoDel queue is upgraded to perform Immediate AQM on L4S flows, the latency spike can be largely avoided. > > We invite a thorough review of the work, but believe that this closes issue #17. > > > Best Regards, > > Greg White, Tom Henderson, Olivier Tilmans > > > > > > > On 11/6/19, 12:59 AM, "Sebastian Moeller" <moeller0@gmx.de> wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > >> On Sep 11, 2019, at 19:16, Greg White <g.white@cablelabs.com> wrote: >> >> I'm planning on doing testing as well, but it will be more than a day or two to get it done. Rough timeframe would be 2-3 weeks from now. > > Since I can not hide my impatience any loger, did anything come out of this yet? > > Best Regards > Sebastian > >> >> -Greg >> >> On 9/11/19, 1:52 AM, "Pete Heist" <pete@heistp.net> wrote: >> >> >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 9:01 PM, Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com> wrote: >>> >>> Since this thread seems to have dwindled, I just wanted to summarize that it looks to me like we have agreement that testing as described is needed. >>> >>> I updated the issue tracker with a comment saying as much and pointing back to this thread in the archive for reference. >>> >>> Is anyone planning to perform this testing in a rough timeframe they might want to share? >> >> Hi Wesley, I’ll share results from relevant testing in the next day or two... >> >> Regards, >> Pete >> >> >> > > >
- [tsvwg] L4S status tracking Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Greg White
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Greg White
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status tracking Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status tracking Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Greg White
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Dave Taht
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Greg White
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Dave Taht
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs alex.burr@ealdwulf.org.uk
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- [tsvwg] fq_codel deployment size Dave Taht
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Tilmans, Olivier (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Tilmans, Olivier (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Tilmans, Olivier (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Tilmans, Olivier (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Tilmans, Olivier (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Dave Taht
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Greg White
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Greg White
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S status: #17 Interaction w/ FQ AQMs Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [tcpm] L4S status tracking Sebastian Moeller