Re: [tsvwg] UDP Options: on forcing the use of UDP CS=0 in connection with FRAG+LITE

Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> Mon, 01 July 2019 20:45 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@strayalpha.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B19B1201A0 for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:45:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.22
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ziDS547QYlIP for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:45:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8138E1201A8 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:45:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ZPWn0jmS8Poidt0tB6k8kmi72Eh/iOIIMU2LReBu0jc=; b=fCbF4wzABmvYdQvlZOZi9DgNY uGjfSil+NkqoZA0esJ0cCZnDeWZ0em83M+ECENgwvR5qhd9d1W07YdIu6FjWB+sgNs+SzMPW52SWe XvWoqkA1juWKCSX8Wqne+BCmOeuJBzpNp5CNsdXoF+f2OxSahbrXhAuxUC+Ix+N2mrgBS3jaLuag+ q/o8gSy0CT9r0ltD0S5rHbCshY7SGCbGcNjP2fQS2+LSxgBisuINw4HQIQLiYV06GFXhKu2OdEiLe YvoLi5TUFxY+6FALgusFM0OqCDe+xDWFe5TBEXO+DGwvGn2ZyFGf7dTG0pwo9eYoYYKJbb2I3cdop Ub0Hlv88w==;
Received: from cpe-172-250-240-132.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.240.132]:50272 helo=[192.168.1.77]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <touch@strayalpha.com>) id 1hi3B9-0007hu-Kk; Mon, 01 Jul 2019 16:45:48 -0400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\))
From: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <3E9DF9F3-EEBF-4C74-9633-A8E4ED1B5C01@strayalpha.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 13:45:32 -0700
Cc: TSVWG <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <2977F9B1-73F3-4718-B65D-074EFED848AF@strayalpha.com>
References: <CACL_3VHGtMz3htgfFLRGhjXm=qC7kOXQs+cchtamhh-giBnpLA@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S35T9ApzMaoSVgHSJPpcpfXsbHHogoBbEjMPj6vH-kxYeA@mail.gmail.com> <CACL_3VE6kr33Vk5si5AxSZNmhqysZZGoy6HK37COUgwbvcRkdA@mail.gmail.com> <24692A9B-4AF1-4E32-A760-7D4908A61262@strayalpha.com> <CACL_3VExhAdFCu-kFLLO5DeRYUOFyJztUgJg-vQmnPoecvzeJg@mail.gmail.com> <6DB954BC-8D40-4347-A172-C00FED1AE4AF@strayalpha.com> <CACL_3VF38oR7emB0K6yrL7Npj4eb-Q-KFVu3=7L66syGaTrJtA@mail.gmail.com> <3E9DF9F3-EEBF-4C74-9633-A8E4ED1B5C01@strayalpha.com>
To: "C. M. Heard" <heard@pobox.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1)
X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/ud16tdFOuxzgLmxkTCBPlR6tLsY>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] UDP Options: on forcing the use of UDP CS=0 in connection with FRAG+LITE
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 20:46:06 -0000

To be a little more specific:

> On Jul 1, 2019, at 1:18 PM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2019, at 12:49 PM, C. M. Heard <heard@pobox.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> You haven’t addressed the data copying issue.
>> 
>> Yes, I have, in
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/RJBWi_tiW6M_phfc22zKuVn_vh4
>> 
>> Can you please respond to that message and explain exactly why you think
>> that the proposal in the thread "DP Options: how to do FRAG without LITE
>> and forced UDP CS=0" imposes data movement requirements for packet
>> reassembly beyond those required by FRAG+LITE (or FRAG without LITE) in
>> in draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-options-07? I sure don't see it.
> 
> When I’m done moving a small, fixed number of bytes, the existing FRAG+LITE option leaves the fragment at the head of the packet.
> 
> When you’re done, the frag is after a variable length string of options.
> 
> Yes, both need to be gathered together. No, they’re not the same - some UDP hardware and software implementations treat the offset where they expect the data to start as “special”; yours could be anywhere.

Consider mbufs chains where headers are in separate mbufs than the body.

In that case, the existing FRAG+LITE would need to just chain the bodies together and alter their length

In the new proposal, there would be a potentially variable offset from the head of each mbuf in the chain.

Those might have very different overheads…

Joe