Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are we doing?
Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us> Fri, 01 November 2013 18:08 UTC
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From: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>
To: Eric Mill <eric@konklone.com>
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Cc: "Paul E. Jones" <paulej@packetizer.com>, WebFinger List <webfinger@googlegroups.com>, "webfinger@ietf.org" <webfinger@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are we doing?
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On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Eric Mill <eric@konklone.com> wrote: > I know I gloss over the non-email uses of Webfinger. It's just very far > from my original understanding of WF, and I don't know any uses out there > of WF for non-email URIs to mention. > Imagine that you were running a service like Twitter that has accounts but doesn't offer email service. In this case, you might use an acct: URI to allow data to be associated with names of your accounts. Imagine that you had a web page that allowed users to do some kind of a search or perform some function upon filling out a form. But, you also offered an API so that folk could write programs to accomplish the same function without parsing HTML, etc. -- if only they knew the API protocol or had a WSDL<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Services_Description_Language>-like document describing it. In that case, you could use WebFinger to return a resource that described or pointed to the API that should be used with the page. (i.e. this would be like a simple, distributed version of UDDI<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Description_Discovery_and_Integration> ...) etc. the uses are endless... > FWIW, I was more precise in the definition I contributed<https://github.com/webfinger/webfinger.net/pull/5>to the front > page of webfinger.net <http://webfinger.net/>: "A way to attach > information to an email address, or other online resource." > > About the link relations (and maybe this should be a separate thread), > when I was making sinatra-webfinger, I realized it was useful to start a little > mapping file<https://github.com/konklone/sinatra-webfinger/blob/master/data/urns.yml>of keywords to best-practice URNs. That way, my configuration was just > "name: 'Eric Mill'", etc. > > Maybe it's worth factoring this out to its own tiny repo, and soliciting > contributions? I think in practice, most admin and user interaction with > Webfinger property names and link rel's should be through common names, not > literally pasting in whole URNs. I honestly can't be bothered to remember > them, or choose between them. > > -- Eric > > > On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> >> >> >> On 1 November 2013 15:58, Eric Mill <eric@konklone.com> wrote: >> >>> I channeled this into a blog post, if anyone's interested: >>> >>> https://konklone.com/post/webfinger-gets-a-final-chance >>> >> >> Nice post. It's actually worth rereading Eran's post on this topic. >> It's great that eran talks about http range 14. >> >> +1 that your record has https >> >> +1 that you set the mime type >> >> I personally would *not* use the webfinger.net link relations, but reuse >> existing predicates such as FOAF, which passes W3C validation (e.g. >> vapour). But you are free to choose what you prefer. >> >> IMHO, decentralization didnt happen, we live in a more centralized web >> than ever. Many people including Chris Messina advocated the host your own >> identity pattern, but slowly but surely, the concept was put more and more >> to the side. At least openid in theory still allows it, even if the >> practice is very different. Persona does not allow it at all. >> >> You seem to suggest that webfinger is about getting information about >> email addresses, although that was the original idea, but it's not now. >> It's about accounts at hosts, which is a subtle difference. SWD was about >> email addresses. >> >> Overall I find myself agreeing with most of what you say :) >> >> >>> >>> I imagine it's going to rankle some people who disagree with my >>> prognosis that some things are dead, but it's how it feels from here. >>> Webfinger needs rapid experimentation, high profile adoption, and the >>> energy of the rest of the open web community. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Eric Mill <eric@konklone.com> wrote: >>> >>>> This is all helpful to hear, and I hope these all come to fruition, >>>> especially OpenID Connect. I'll take a stab at setting up my own OpenID >>>> Connect service on my domain and see how it feels. >>>> >>>> I guess it's inevitable that we have to hope the big companies make a >>>> meaningful gesture, too. Giving Google's outdated Webfinger endpoint<https://gmail.com/.well-known/host-meta> for >>>> Gmail a big update would be a great start. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Paul E. Jones <paulej@packetizer.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Eric, >>>>> >>>>> OpenID is not entirely dead, yet. I still run my own OpenID OP server >>>>> and use it to log into some sites. I still allow OpenID logins on >>>>> forums.packetizer.com, too. It's still in use, but the large sites >>>>> just didn't have enough users using it, so they axed it. On its heels, >>>>> though, is now OpenID Connect and it will use WebFinger for discovery. so, >>>>> sure... push it :-) >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I can think of a lot of good uses for WebFinger: >>>>> * When I log onto a web site, I want the site to grab my name an >>>>> picture automatically. >>>>> * If I want somebody to send me bitcoins, I'd much rather give them my >>>>> email address (and I do have that in my WF account) >>>>> * My contact info is published via WebFinger, so I don't have to give >>>>> people a lot of info on a business card >>>>> * WebFinger will hopefully be used as the starting point for >>>>> auto-provisioning of email clients or other devices and applications where >>>>> one has to enter server and port information >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/14/2013 11:21 PM, Eric Mill wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hey all, >>>>> >>>>> I was at a hackathon<http://fedscoop.com/code-dc-calls-furloughed-feds/> today, >>>>> and spent the day working on Webfinger libraries for Sinatra<https://github.com/konklone/sinatra-webfinger>and >>>>> Jekyll <https://github.com/konklone/jekyll-webfinger>. It was really >>>>> productive, but -- at the end of the day, a reporter was there asking >>>>> everybody questions about their projects. >>>>> >>>>> When he asked what Webfinger was for, I realized that the original >>>>> easy-to-communicate killer app for Webfinger, easing universal login >>>>> through OpenID, was<http://productblogarchive.37signals.com/products/2011/01/well-be-retiring-our-support-of-openid-on-may-1.html> >>>>> dead <https://www.myopenid.com/>. The only thing I could think to say >>>>> was "Remember OpenID? Before it died? Well, this is a piece of the puzzle >>>>> to putting something like that back together again." >>>>> >>>>> That didn't feel like a very impressive answer. So, now that OpenID >>>>> is dead, what's the one line explanation for why Webfinger is important? >>>>> What's the path forward to making Webfinger something people are >>>>> incentivized to support? >>>>> >>>>> Should we be pushing really hard to resuscitate OpenID via OpenID >>>>> Connect? Do we just need to wait for internal lobbying inside of >>>>> Google/Microsoft/Twitter/etc to pay off in some announcement? I know >>>>> Webfinger supports more than email lookup -- is there some particular >>>>> killer app people were envisioning when they lobbied for that feature? >>>>> >>>>> I'm so happy there's finally an RFC, after so many years. I >>>>> recognize how much work was put in to make that happen, and this shouldn't >>>>> be taken as a criticism of anyone. I just want to know what others see for >>>>> the future of Webfinger, and what I should do next. >>>>> >>>>> -- Eric >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> konklone.com | @konklone <https://twitter.com/konklone> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> webfinger mailing listwebfinger@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webfinger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> webfinger mailing list >>>>> webfinger@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webfinger >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> konklone.com | @konklone <https://twitter.com/konklone> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> konklone.com | @konklone <https://twitter.com/konklone> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> webfinger mailing list >>> webfinger@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webfinger >>> >>> >> -- >> >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "WebFinger" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to webfinger+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > konklone.com | @konklone <https://twitter.com/konklone> > > _______________________________________________ > webfinger mailing list > webfinger@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webfinger > >
- [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are we do… Eric Mill
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Brad Fitzpatrick
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Kingsley Idehen
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Eric Mill
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Eric Mill
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Bob Wyman
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Melvin Carvalho
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Eric Mill
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Bob Wyman
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Eric Mill
- Re: [webfinger] Vision for Webfinger - what are w… Kingsley Idehen