Re: Weird messages from IETF/Google Mailservers (WG: PALS WG Adoption poll draft-schmutzer-pals-ple)

[Robert Sparks <[e-mail]>]

Changing the aliases to work more like the lists has been planned as 
part of the mailman3 transition, but we are tracking this issue 
separately at https://github.com/ietf-tools/postconfirm/issues/33. Note 
also the discussion at the May tools-team meeting at 
<https://notes.ietf.org/tools-team-20230516#New-data-on-dmarc-failures-for-aliases---RobertJohn>.

RjS

On 6/1/23 5:34 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Loa,
>
> There's a difference between email sent to an IETF email list (which 
> uses mailman to handle email authentication issues by acting as the 
> email source) and to an IETF email expander like pals-chairs, which 
> doesn't.
>
> When you're using an email expander, the original source of the email 
> doesn't change, which exposes the email to any issues the original 
> sender of the email may have. In this case, the issue is that Google 
> is rejecting the email to pals-chairs because the telecom.de 
> <http://telecom.de/> domain apparently doesn't support DKIM or SPF. 
> This is the same issue as pi.nu <http://pi.nu>.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 5:08 AM Loa Andersson <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>     Nic,
>
>     No I do get them also, it looks like gmail-addresses does not work
>     with
>     gmail addresses, for me it works if I send directly to the gmail
>     addresses (i.e. not using the mail-alias).
>
>     Andy reported this, and the answer was "know problem".
>
>     What I don't understand is that we must have gmail-addresses on the
>     working mailing list, but no bounces.
>
>     /Loa
>
>     On 2023-06-01 11:00, [e-mail] wrote:
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > Am I the only one getting weird messages from IETF/Google Mail
>     Servers?
>     > Looks like that the expansion of an alias caused the problem.
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > Nic
>     >
>     > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>     > Von: Mail Delivery System <[e-mail]>
>     > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. Juni 2023 10:50
>     > An: Leymann, Nicolai
>     > Betreff: Unzustellbar: PALS WG Adoption poll
>     draft-schmutzer-pals-ple
>     >
>     > This is the mail system at host ietfa.amsl.com
>     <http://ietfa.amsl.com>.
>     >
>     > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be
>     delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
>     >
>     > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
>     >
>     > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete
>     your own text from the attached returned message.
>     >
>     >                     The mail system
>     >
>     > <[e-mail]> (expanded from
>     <[e-mail]>): host
>     > gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com
>     <http://gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com>[2607:f8b0:4023:c06::1b] said:
>     550-5.7.26 This
>     >      mail is unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the
>     550-5.7.26
>     >      sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
>     must 550-5.7.26
>     >      authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this
>     message, 550-5.7.26
>     >      DKIM checks did not pass and SPF check for [telekom.de
>     <http://telekom.de>] did not pass
>     >      550-5.7.26 with ip: [2001:559:c4c7::100]. The sender should
>     visit
>     >      550-5.7.26
>     https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for
>     >      550 5.7.26 instructions on setting up authentication.
>     >      g9-20020a17090ace8900b00246fe4e326dsi753688pju.81 - gsmtp
>     (in reply to end
>     >      of DATA command)
>     >
>     > <[e-mail]> (expanded from
>     >      <[e-mail]>): host
>     > gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com
>     <http://gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com>[2607:f8b0:4023:c06::1b] said:
>     550-5.7.26 This
>     >      mail is unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the
>     550-5.7.26
>     >      sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
>     must 550-5.7.26
>     >      authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this
>     message, 550-5.7.26
>     >      DKIM checks did not pass and SPF check for [telekom.de
>     <http://telekom.de>] did not pass
>     >      550-5.7.26 with ip: [2001:559:c4c7::100]. The sender should
>     visit
>     >      550-5.7.26
>     https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for
>     >      550 5.7.26 instructions on setting up authentication.
>     >      g9-20020a17090ace8900b00246fe4e326dsi753688pju.81 - gsmtp
>     (in reply to end
>     >      of DATA command)
>     >
>     > <[e-mail]> (expanded from
>     >      <[e-mail]>): host
>     > gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com
>     <http://gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com>[2607:f8b0:4023:c06::1b] said:
>     550-5.7.26 This
>     >      mail is unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the
>     550-5.7.26
>     >      sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
>     must 550-5.7.26
>     >      authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this
>     message, 550-5.7.26
>     >      DKIM checks did not pass and SPF check for [telekom.de
>     <http://telekom.de>] did not pass
>     >      550-5.7.26 with ip: [2001:559:c4c7::100]. The sender should
>     visit
>     >      550-5.7.26
>     https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for
>     >      550 5.7.26 instructions on setting up authentication.
>     >      g9-20020a17090ace8900b00246fe4e326dsi753688pju.81 - gsmtp
>     (in reply to end
>     >      of DATA command)
>     >
>
>     -- 
>     Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
>     Senior MPLS Expert [e-mail]
>     Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: [phone]
>