Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt
"Roni Even" <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com> Wed, 16 January 2013 15:04 UTC
Return-Path: <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: xrblock@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: xrblock@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53BD221F863B for <xrblock@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:04:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bMzu9lKPNptG for <xrblock@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:04:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ee0-f49.google.com (mail-ee0-f49.google.com [74.125.83.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D1A921F8A3E for <xrblock@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:04:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ee0-f49.google.com with SMTP id d4so664509eek.22 for <xrblock@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:04:14 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:x-mailer:thread-index :content-language; bh=JjcZGwhUrst5HnWcHOKonoR2A9kjnNuMyqUQnUWsWPc=; b=zL4fXMgnrih0Se4F/EvrISG4BBgO6WDh3eCsEDsP2tZBFN+GDWvkqUqsPjUFruvupr mRnUkXCMl3oXSbqxo14BR9PiTsC0aebrERsBlas59cs4LZWTKUmG1VW+ipzOMdJ3ItKm 2rItZh+ASTjJhOqDGLzndmocM7kjy0Dgk5TRKcZovqLBZf6NEwGVzgh5Ymj+vjECBLAx rwLT9sf691hxO2+TqJMQr3b0rP19JKVcEq12ZcBhIMd/Pe+B9LzBIbXQn9M73E0B2kHl XpEBQ2rgky5R4A9ul9Q5BcR3D1Ir6nqNcUzPmujL/Ph0I0ZAK8NJ9j6YpiH8/8UxMueG T9rQ==
X-Received: by 10.14.205.199 with SMTP id j47mr3460720eeo.26.1358348654185; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:04:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from RoniE ([109.66.27.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 46sm29813945eeg.4.2013.01.16.07.04.09 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:04:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Roni Even <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com>
To: 'Alan Clark' <alan.d.clark@telchemy.com>, "'Dan (Dan)'" <dromasca@avaya.com>, 'Kevin Gross' <kevin.gross@avanw.com>, 'Qin Wu' <bill.wu@huawei.com>
References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA061BBB@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <CD1C048B.4D621%alan.d.clark@telchemy.com>
In-Reply-To: <CD1C048B.4D621%alan.d.clark@telchemy.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 17:01:19 +0200
Message-ID: <03aa01cdf3fa$58f1d630$0ad58290$@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03AB_01CDF40B.1C7C2CD0"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
Thread-Index: AQK+Ebml6GvPlzlE/fVLKWSBf4dMVpZr0DkQ
Content-Language: en-us
Cc: 'xrblock' <xrblock@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt
X-BeenThere: xrblock@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Metric Blocks for use with RTCP's Extended Report Framework working group discussion list <xrblock.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/xrblock>, <mailto:xrblock-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xrblock>
List-Post: <mailto:xrblock@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:xrblock-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xrblock>, <mailto:xrblock-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:04:19 -0000
Hi Alan, I am not sure what applies a nominal delay means. Is the first packet defines the start of the jitter buffer and nominal delay is the size of the fixed jitter buffer. When saying that the jitter buffer may increase or reduce is this for the adaptive jitter buffer? Roni From: xrblock-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:xrblock-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alan Clark Sent: 16 January, 2013 2:18 PM To: Dan (Dan); Kevin Gross; Qin Wu Cc: xrblock Subject: Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt A typical jitter buffer uses the first packet received as its timing reference, and applies a nominal delay to that before playing out. During later operation, the jitter buffer may increase or reduce the nominal delay or may pick a new reference packet. This nominal delay represents the "late window" - so if a packet arrives more than "nominal delay ms" after its expected time then it will be discarded. "On time" - in this case - refers to the expected arrival time of the packet when calculated with reference to the first or a later selected reference packet. Jitter buffer implementations don't necessary do this mathematically however this is a generalized description that models the behavior of most jitter buffers used for VoIP and Videoconferencing. Playout buffers used in video streaming applications operate quite differently. Basically a received chunk of encoded video is added to the playout buffer - encoded video is read from the buffer. When the buffer level drops below a threshold then another chunk of video is requested from the server. There is an equivalent to "nominal delay" as the buffer will always try to make sure there is at least a minimal level of video in the buffer before playing out - however there would not be the equivalent of an "on time" packet. Regards Alan On 1/16/13 5:36 AM, "Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com> wrote: Kevin, Qin, Do you want to discuss this one2one, or should we organize a short conference call? Do other think that they can contribute to clarify the issues, or want to participate? Dan From: xrblock-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:xrblock-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Gross Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:08 PM To: Qin Wu Cc: xrblock Subject: Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt I think we need to have a phone call to discuss this whole thing. Kevin Gross +1-303-447-0517 Media Network Consultant AVA Networks - www.AVAnw.com <http://www.avanw.com/> , www.X192.org <http://www.X192.org> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote: Hi,Kevin: I like to make some additioal clarification to your question. I think the packet arrives exactly on time, is also referred to the packet that has nominal delay. So we have two ways to address this. a. It is more like implementation specific issue,e.g., rely on timing information in the headers of previous packet and current packet or rely on time window to determine this. So we can leave this to the specific implemenations. b. we can explain the packet that arrives exactly on time as the packet that has nominal delay. The nominal delay can either be choosen as the jitter buffer delay for the packet with minimal delay(i.e., the reference packet is choosen as the packet with minmal delay) or average delay for all the packets that arrives within the implementation specific time window during the measurement interval. I am not sure we should details to talk about this, but If we take (b), we prefer to add the following sentence in the draft to say: "Note that the reference packet is generally selected as the packet with minimum delay based on the most common criterion (see Sections 1 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6798#section-1> and 5.1 of [RFC5481 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5481> ]). " Let me know what you think about this. Regards! -Qin ----- Original Message ----- From: Qin Wu <mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com> To: Kevin Gross <mailto:kevin.gross@avanw.com> Cc: xrblock <mailto:xrblock@ietf.org> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt Kevin: As I clarified to you in the previous email, "implemention specific time window" described in Burst Gap drafts will be used to identify a "packet that arrives exactly on time". That is to say, if the receiving packet falls within implemention specific time window and can be sucessfully playout, such packet will be regarded as packet that arrives exactly on time. Hope this clarifies. Regards! -Qin ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Gross <mailto:kevin.gross@avanw.com> To: Qin Wu <mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com> Cc: xrblock <mailto:xrblock@ietf.org> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 6:04 AM Subject: Re: offlist//Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt Qin, Of the jitter buffer delay metric, the draft currently says "It is calculated based on the difference between the receipt time and the playout time for the packet that arrives exactly on time." My issue is that I don't know how to identify a "packet that arrives exactly on time". Kevin Gross +1-303-447-0517 <tel:%2B1-303-447-0517> Media Network Consultant AVA Networks - www.AVAnw.com <http://www.AVAnw.com> , www.X192.org <http://www.X192.org> _____ _______________________________________________ xrblock mailing list xrblock@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xrblock _____ _______________________________________________ xrblock mailing list xrblock@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xrblock
- [xrblock] I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-… internet-drafts
- [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Varun Singh
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Kevin Gross
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Kevin Gross
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Glen Zorn
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Glen Zorn
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] offlist//Re: Fw: I-D Action: draft-… Kevin Gross
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Kevin Gross
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Alan Clark
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Roni Even
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Alan Clark
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Roni Even
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Alan Clark
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Kevin Gross
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Kevin Gross
- Re: [xrblock] Fw: I-D Action: draft-ietf-xrblock-… Qin Wu