Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme
Tim <tim-projects@sentinelchicken.org> Thu, 09 June 2011 14:42 UTC
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Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 07:42:24 -0700
From: Tim <tim-projects@sentinelchicken.org>
To: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110609144224.GR1565@sentinelchicken.org>
References: <90C41DD21FB7C64BB94121FBBC2E723447581DA8EA@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET> <BANLkTikpQNyQdr9oWHhtJ7a7d-4ri0CNdA@mail.gmail.com> <09c801cc24c2$a05bae00$e1130a00$@packetizer.com> <BANLkTin30NVzYVV1m4gmyh42DWs-nSQpAg@mail.gmail.com> <00f101cc255e$2d426020$87c72060$@packetizer.com> <BANLkTimn8c72p5bjwHNapW9kVCVBmNbC4w@mail.gmail.com> <015801cc25ab$063a2150$12ae63f0$@packetizer.com> <20110608153225.GL1565@sentinelchicken.org> <90C41DD21FB7C64BB94121FBBC2E7234475E773C73@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET> <BANLkTi=Qg=q066rAHkhFrsHBb3Yu4hWYFA@mail.gmail.com>
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Cc: "apps-discuss@ietf.org" <apps-discuss@ietf.org>, OAuth WG <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme
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> Digest has a bunch of problems. See this document > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-security-properties-05#section-2.2.2 > > for a short tour of them. Thanks for the link. I totally agree with all of this, and in fact there are more MitM attacks possible than are alluded to in that document. This is one of the two reasons I brought up Digest initially. The MAC proposal does not appear to provide any additional security over Digest, and yet Digest is still susceptible to MitM attacks. We can pick and prod at the MAC proposal all we want from a security perspective, but we'll probably end up at the same place that Digest is at, security-wise. We'll still have a protocol that can't defend against MitM attacks. So what is the point in providing integrity again? We need to use TLS. Everywhere. The more you look at advanced web attacks (MitM downgrade attacks, DNS rebinding attacks, etc), the more you realize that most of these are addressed by TLS if only it were used everywhere. It's fine to bring out special-purpose authentication protocols. Authentication can happen in a variety of ways either within TLS or tunneled over it (hopefully with channel binding), but don't pretend you'll be doing anyone favors by trying to provide partial integrity protection that is ultimately ineffective. Just focus on better authentication and key/certificate management and let TLS do the rest. tim
- [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] [saag] Fwd: HTTP MAC Authentic… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [saag] Fwd: HTTP MAC Authentic… Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Chris Bentzel
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Chris Bentzel
- Re: [apps-discuss] [saag] Fwd: HTTP MAC Authentic… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [saag] Fwd: HTTP MAC Authentic… Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] [saag] Fwd: HTTP MAC Authentic… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Stephen Farrell
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Adam Barth
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Adam Barth
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] HTTP MAC Authentication Scheme Stephen Farrell
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Adam Barth
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… William J. Mills
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Tim
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Randy Fischer
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Igor Faynberg
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… William J. Mills
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Tim
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Breno de Medeiros
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Bjartur Thorlacius
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Tim
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Tim
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Robert Sayre
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] [http-state] HTTP MAC Authenti… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Tim
- Re: [apps-discuss] [OAUTH-WG] [http-state] HTTP M… Bjartur Thorlacius