Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chenxin-behave-turn-websocket-00.txt
"Chenxin (Xin)" <hangzhou.chenxin@huawei.com> Thu, 16 May 2013 11:52 UTC
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From: "Chenxin (Xin)" <hangzhou.chenxin@huawei.com>
To: "Hutton, Andrew" <andrew.hutton@siemens-enterprise.com>, Bernard Aboba <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>, "behave@ietf.org" <behave@ietf.org>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chenxin-behave-turn-websocket-00.txt
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Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 11:52:17 +0000
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Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chenxin-behave-turn-websocket-00.txt
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>-----Original Message----- >From: Hutton, Andrew [mailto:andrew.hutton@siemens-enterprise.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:28 PM >To: Bernard Aboba; Chenxin (Xin); behave@ietf.org; rtcweb@ietf.org >Subject: RE: [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notification for >draft-chenxin-behave-turn-websocket-00.txt > >I agree with Bernard's comments regarding the impact of DPI but of course such >DPI devices do what they do and we can't and even don't want to stop them >from doing it. However for the case when policy is such that the firewall will only >allow traffic to traverse that comes from the HTTP Proxy or a network specific >TURN server and there is no deliberate policy to block WebRTC media we need a >solution and this is what draft-hutton-rtcweb-nat-firewall-considerations-00 >addresses. > Yes, we could not stop the use of DPI, but we should consider this scene. I think that is the purpose of F37. Besides, websocket is friendly to http proxy too. I agree that draft-hutton-rtcweb-nat-firewall-considerations-00 should be a baseline to solve the traverse problem of nat and fireward. But I think the turn over websocket solution should also be considered as a option to solve some corner use case and requirement. Best Regards, Xin >So far I don't see the benefit that TURN over websockets would have in this >scenario and it needs additional implementation in the browser and the TURN >server. > >Regards >Andy > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] >> Sent: 15 May 2013 18:20 >> To: Hutton, Andrew; Chenxin (Xin); behave@ietf.org; rtcweb@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notification for draft-chenxin- >> behave-turn-websocket-00.txt >> >> Andrew Hutton said: >> > When we wrote the draft http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hutton- >> rtcweb-nat-firewall-considerations-00 we did not include this option >> because we did not see the benefit of additional transport options for >> TURN given that the existing options (E.g. TURN/TCP and TURN/TLS) seem >> to be meet our needs. >> > >> > So what would be the benefits that justify this addition transport >> option for TURN? >> >> [BA] In my experience, institutions with very restrictive security >> policies (e.g. those that don't allow UDP in or out) also tend to >> deploy other measures such as deep packet inspection. So just because >> some traffic is allowed in or out on port 80 does not mean that >> TURN/TCP will be allowed on that port - a DPI box may examine the >> traffic and complain if it doesn't see HTTP being used. On the other >> hand, unless the DPI box is upgraded, it will also complain about >> websockets. So I think draft-chenxin only helps in a situation where >> TURN over Websockets would be allowed when TURN/TCP would not >be. That >> scenario is rare, at least at the moment. >> >> The argument for TURN over Websocket/TLS is even more difficult to >> make. While DPI boxes may examine traffic destined to port 443 >> carefully to make sure that TLS is really being used, assuming that >> the DPI box does not see anything it considers fishy, the TLS exchange >> will complete and the DPI box will lose visibility. After TLS is >> running, the DPI box does not have much information available to >> distinguish TURN/TLS from HTTP over TLS, with or without websockets -- >> and those things it does have (such as packet size) are as likely to >> result in an objection to websocket transport as TURN/TLS. So I'm not >> sure that draft-chenxin will help in that situation either. > > >
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Bernard Aboba
- [BEHAVE] FW: New Version Notification for draft-c… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Gustavo García
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Lorenzo Miniero
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Simon Pietro Romano
- [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version Notif… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Richard Barnes