Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification for draft-chenxin-behave-turn-websocket-00.txt
Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Fri, 24 May 2013 17:52 UTC
Return-Path: <rlb@ipv.sx>
X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 589F321F9651 for <behave@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.247
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.247 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.729, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6FSNBdw0AJGC for <behave@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com (mail-oa0-f52.google.com [209.85.219.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B85721F95EC for <behave@ietf.org>; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id h1so6593056oag.11 for <behave@ietf.org>; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=4/8ezoRymLgYaW5UV+BFWCV3lwZDPqbB+H8Fp3KiTyo=; b=LacuPAsluAeSYqvYh33VSAW1xHPVF+flmRq6iREeTBrQFQqGX21KrjqswL1VH8w7lo dsKD+gaEyxdxeWkfqvm6CYlCLfbQv8KAhB4OFCqCKcHQd6/drRhZ2ePwyXrBafiLOXfX uCcYV/9UycyHI0UgeIu8Fv/PvPMuHiD8kYlm7nArIh+77qch6+rrlymijzKptW0yR94K VVQ7l6a3ciJ5ZiDZ7FS1oxr6auMndeJKU5k3JMLcMQWN9rw4eLiJaaWHzuNsMm/RpcHX 5tPcapnpw+btjSKntqnx2A7B1x1qttCylldPdzCD8BLnQ4e8u6TC8HwsJ7PTJ56Hkynl y2+Q==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.60.42.104 with SMTP id n8mr12735649oel.94.1369417967588; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.60.102.146 with HTTP; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Originating-IP: [128.89.254.202]
In-Reply-To: <519F8F13.8020204@acm.org>
References: <9E34D50A21D1D1489134B4D770CE03974C6DC83A@szxeml538-mbs.china.huawei.com> <9F33F40F6F2CD847824537F3C4E37DDF11599668@MCHP04MSX.global-ad.net> <BLU169-W4995BC8B88C6AD60F4CA5093A20@phx.gbl> <9F33F40F6F2CD847824537F3C4E37DDF1159A209@MCHP04MSX.global-ad.net> <6F6B2040-A8C7-4B37-928E-5072F06E9894@tokbox.com> <20130520111522.1b7e2eb1@meetecho.com> <519F8F13.8020204@acm.org>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 13:52:47 -0400
Message-ID: <CAL02cgR8H2A-Z7fCbboy=Hq6r63hm1KyOe8YP9n8tDnVVb6hVA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
To: Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0149ca5c81ec2204dd7a7752"
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkIXUIkFkH5B3X7QpGpN7Hy5NSyGpKQVGTTL1kbAVVaEZgz3fHsl45jnsE6OsOUOAgPhm6L
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 28 May 2013 08:38:47 -0700
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>, Lorenzo Miniero <lorenzo@meetecho.com>, "behave@ietf.org" <behave@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification for draft-chenxin-behave-turn-websocket-00.txt
X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG <behave.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/behave>, <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/behave>
List-Post: <mailto:behave@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave>, <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 17:52:52 -0000
This is probably about the appropriate point in the thread to drop in a reference to Firewall Enhancement Protocol, RFC 3093: <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3093> FEP has the benefit that you don't even negotiate the connection, since it tunnels the entire IP datagram, not just the UDP part. </sarcasm> On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > On 05/20/2013 02:15 AM, Lorenzo Miniero wrote: > > Il giorno Sun, 19 May 2013 23:20:41 -0700 Gustavo García <ggb@tokbox.com > > > > ha scritto: > > > >> I agree that TURN over websockets doesn't solve much more scenarios than > >> TURN/TLS. If trying to fix HTTP Proxy traversal why not doing it over > >> HTTP that aside of philosophical discussions would be the solution with > >> better success rate? Otherwise we will have to continue answering for > >> another 10 years "why is this app not working if skype does". > >> > >> Something like this draft sent some months ago but perhaps for TURN > >> instead of direct connections: > >> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-miniero-rtcweb-http-fallback-00.txt > >> > > > > > > When I submitted that draft this summer, I had that exact purpose in > mind, > > that is taking care of corner edge cases like restrictive proxies and the > > like. Of course it was not meant to be a solution, just a way to foster > > discussion in that direction. In that discussion I also mentioned some > work > > we did about this in the past, which in part apparently ended up in > > draft-hutton-rtcweb-nat-firewall-considerations: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg05041.html > > > > At the time most people in the ML thought it was either too useless, too > > complex or even harmful, considering it could be considered as a "sneaky" > > way to circumvent rules added by a network administrator, and so > > unacceptable. Anyway, as I said back then, a solution like this doesn't > > have to be sneaky, and it could very well be conceived in order to be > > admin-friendly rather than have a parrot and a wooden leg. > > About circumventing rules added by a network administrator, I do think that > using TURN over Websocket or HTTP is doing in fact the opposite: It is the > only way to obey the wish of the network administrator, as long as you > classify Webrtc is a *web* technology and not as a VoIP technology. > > Think about it this way: An administrator restricting UDP but authorizing > HTTP is basically saying: All web applications are fine, and Webrtc being a > Web application, it should just work fine, and should not be a collateral > damage of restricting UDP. So TURN over Websocket/HTTP should be a > mandatory > part of Webrtc. > > Now the administrator should also have access to tools to restrict some > classes of web applications, and Webrtc should be one of these classes. > But > that should not be done as a side-effect of closing the UDP ports. > > - -- > Marc Petit-Huguenin > Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org > Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJRn48NAAoJECnERZXWan7Eve4P/3Y1SL2IuHZw6Iqats3ZwXG9 > dRxG5JSWEqKbVBgiPNUvXocMu7MbclAB1PC8K++roBDjayqlL9bh2EGmolyLDMLr > oloAFLRUmo4Yccj+IkECODbgVowtE9rNl9BudUk4hDk151Z6HLgu8wjAR05aLaM2 > 9PHnAmp4JZt6BlrOytkUj9yHLsSSCPNqZpYSFFbrCEkURQLZTXlPw0BOtRVoBb8a > zBwDVSaW7IdgOuIwq5kbxaITXXrrezCspMesMucVFfp9f0k1AtR3ARjhPj6wAogv > WJvtBnJYUDw8fpZplyPmKK8af7jEpfbr5IrkzE5JPrmeCdLElzqb6BSpe+GP6EqH > 0QSDZe73HqwMso90VAFPitGnTK91qLk7R3c//W3J0GQ6sSwUYrArjx5sO5uS7N9n > 78YIZXoEYgPMfetkGIMJddSRkJxNjQAyi9kmcWyss8CgvqEnWCZbFlnz8I0Eeh+8 > tOI4nhyJGVsSKAn1uORGvnrOXID8oTOhXfwh2r4yDQRpu8outqZuSeksSEtOgoYe > Jli9boycKkXCilBDHkf+YhY5bqETvDunFyb+O1NQnpIogQOrxucX8Jr9YyAbRxbw > xb0qNyMPLpp75jXfgFQ4Cxc+f8Nm7xYG8GKrSKHxiqazo6aOKZ1rxWdv5945iB53 > HJsMG1MkVKRwRBgLsM9S > =HTew > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Bernard Aboba
- [BEHAVE] FW: New Version Notification for draft-c… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] FW: New Version Notificatio… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Gustavo García
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Lorenzo Miniero
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Simon Pietro Romano
- [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version Notif… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Karl Stahl
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] Why? Quality! New Version N… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [BEHAVE] [rtcweb] New Version Notification fo… Richard Barnes