Re: [BEHAVE] RFC6147 and RFC7208 interoperability issues

Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Mon, 07 February 2022 17:58 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: behave@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 592EF3A1045 for <behave@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 09:58:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.602
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.714, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TU5JqS4M1DVo for <behave@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 09:58:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx36-out20.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out20.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93E403A1053 for <behave@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 09:58:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from xse262.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.8] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx259.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1nH8Gp-0006l4-55 for behave@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2022 18:57:59 +0100
Received: from xsmtp21.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.60]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Jsv4T0Yw8z2kl for <behave@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 09:57:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.5.2.15] (helo=xmail05.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1nH8Gm-0001du-Ud for behave@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2022 09:57:44 -0800
Received: (qmail 32346 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2022 17:57:44 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.105]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.218]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail05.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <moore@network-heretics.com>; 7 Feb 2022 17:57:44 -0000
Message-ID: <fc42e217-6af9-c034-9834-c5fdeb1506f8@huitema.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2022 09:57:44 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0
Content-Language: en-US
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: behave@ietf.org, David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org>
References: <3ae61684-10d1-dde6-222a-69f456dbe5e3@network-heretics.com> <9D44ABAB-63A1-42AD-AC0B-F8833F6DF7C7@huitema.net>
In-Reply-To: <9D44ABAB-63A1-42AD-AC0B-F8833F6DF7C7@huitema.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Originating-IP: 66.113.197.8
X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.197.0/24
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.197.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.15)
X-Recommended-Action: accept
X-Filter-ID: Pt3MvcO5N4iKaDQ5O6lkdGlMVN6RH8bjRMzItlySaT9WLQux0N3HQm8ltz8rnu+BPUtbdvnXkggZ 3YnVId/Y5jcf0yeVQAvfjHznO7+bT5zVVrN4oC+7+v6H1pDHwMpu42UuDhyzVYcwl2RB+0AaehfX r4yeisf7PSfzYaUCtx8h55uqY3MhMgFAHq5BxPxPXn36fLqvhISQ5ykyqUZqUd1jhnM/Mbva2XLV /LIEzaL2KoAZhJekBPedneT7f699iwgQ+2yl7BoDncKB+ziACIPAgTtUp75uqlx0KezvZHVrtC+3 u7imVaHvXwOgpH/5WQaaSSaRcFTFxaRvADgOuFdAU5fRzM/QzQW9/IoH33AG8ECuCwECazCwODtO F78PiyQEs+dlGXUJLWZ+Gc08Nmllke3azHdKmySKNUVQl4ntlVxnbS8qIO7oudHyb2T1VQ58xe/l rqiRGalI3YPsxOTrFXToVyBmRCgQVX6zVyFUu8qzeMQP6uTHL0d9UjfY+eX5ZvcELCIKs663F/co VFYFvf25LVONYbYifH5OzZDcG6hsRQZiAIgw+z837AqgX7ewI8e1h7RITgN14BHmGVt/ReJ9Mfhz zmbKTH7wI9GEU1utNskUAORCV2WFZX0jvQDJ+ubUA3pW9vyNwhNtqaTeVLW3pB0Q/PTyowo5Aftq Dbc41tJy7vJoZZJsuxJlCFXoGKtafvOtcW/mP16byrL/nwvREHuP3/Ps3A4Pt7hRyBl07OVp2D/S 9ogT8aIX6abOyKlLsxs8P4CT3FEuG2baoi3Xhdc2HesLPapxtd2C1AI9a3irbifzymzQYX+PEWQT rBsyp3SHj0XvrMw/YlZ0rtKo3jNsszJ6RMVZJYr1HzVoPPWCOZ6mxVh8/420Ph1bwjcZNvtLW/8I +UKdJG0AuXq0T17woJo3avKeADIsy647Mn0zwmGzAi3Zn+YdthRNgs7Ig4l/XErpYn3glZTKFuaT l19W3ISq9+1KiLsESGU+y+fjdgjudZxiTPi+MG1QP35nsYfP84c+RFK3KiZuZ5OAUoGBziSYFLZu u6zX3xxsmqT8l9ARlsTalAaf
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/behave/syq8OjhsaCA0WpbndBffyK5FaCw>
Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] RFC6147 and RFC7208 interoperability issues
X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG <behave.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/behave>, <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/behave/>
List-Post: <mailto:behave@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave>, <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2022 17:58:17 -0000

On 2/7/2022 9:43 AM, Christian Huitema wrote:
>   
>
>> On Feb 7, 2022, at 9:24 AM, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 2/7/22 12:18, David Conrad wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>> As far as I can tell, Klaus has identified a specific issue in which existing IETF specifications are deficient in order to facilitate interoperability in a specific protocol when NAT64 is in use.
>> To the extent that the specifications are deficient, it's because the approach was inherently deficient.
> I think the approach in RFC6147 is a reasonable compromise for deploying 6to4: handle the common case for unmodified hosts; recognize that this is a kludge; steer to end-to-end solutions for all complex cases.
Think what you want about my internal brain processes, but I actually 
meant to write NAT64, not 6to4.
>
> We are not going to undeploy NAT64, let alone NAT. But we can certainly provide guidance for implementing end to end solutions for all complex cases. Given deployment of DoH, this will be needed soon.

By the way, I wrote these emails before reading Andrew Sullivan's 
response. I agree with Andrew.

-- Christian Huitema