Re: [Din] Draft / Specification of the GNU Name System

"Bless, Roland (TM)" <roland.bless@kit.edu> Fri, 19 March 2021 11:34 UTC

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To: "Schanzenbach, Martin" <schanzen@gnunet.org>, din@irtf.org
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From: "Bless, Roland (TM)" <roland.bless@kit.edu>
Organization: Institute of Telematics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT)
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Subject: Re: [Din] Draft / Specification of the GNU Name System
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Hi Martin,

I'm somewhat confused. DINRG is a _research_ group of the IRTF, so
it's not about standardization in the first place, whereas secdispatch
is an IETF activity. So the question is what you want to achieve in the 
end: Discussion of the general approach for further input on the concept
or just a documentation what you did?

If you are interested in getting this standardized, my impression is
that you should get input from IETF DNSOPS people whether your approach
is able to satisfy the most important operational characteristics as DNS 
replacement.

Furthermore, if you want to go for standardization, the whole underlying 
DHT specification is missing and I'm not sure that your model is
compatible with RELOAD (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6940). One
needs to also check that and probably come up with a
corresponding modification of RELOAD or a completely new DHT proposal.

Regards,
  Roland

On 19.03.21 at 11:29 Schanzenbach, Martin wrote:
> Dear DINRG,
> 
> this WG seems inactive and consequently we are kind of in limbo at the moment.
> Considering that a recent IAB report basically screams decentralization and
> specifically mentions naming [1], we are convinced our draft is still very much relevant,
> and such topics are discussed at IETF.
> We would like to improve upon the draft and get into more
> discussions with interested experts, but we get the feeling this may not be the
> correct WG where this is discussed?
> As written before we still believe that given the charter of DINRG
> this should be the right place for our topic.
> If there were other discussions happening on this list we would have inferred that
> there is no interest in the draft, but the only response on this ML is the mail from
> Dirk indicating interest in it.
> 
> We are not sure how to proceed.
> Will there be a meeting this year? Would this draft be the only topic?
> Are you waiting for additional topics to come up?
> 
> If there is no technical feedback to be had for us within this WG, organizational
> pointers on how to proceed would be welcome.
> Should we go back to secdispatch?
> Should we move into independent stream?
> 
> Best
> Martin
> 
> [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8980.html#name-centralized-deployment-mode
> 
>> On 24. Jan 2021, at 10:49, Schanzenbach, Martin <schanzen@gnunet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Signed PGP part
>> Hi Dirk,
>>
>> just wanting to touch base if there will be a DINRG meeting at the next IETF?
>> We have continued working on the draft and there have further been efforts to more cleanly specify the set reconciliation for zone revocation in a general fashion here [1].
>>
>> Of course we are still available and interested in presenting/discussing the GNS draft at DINRG.
>>
>> Best
>> Martin
>>
>> [1] https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-summermatter-set-union-00.txt
>>
>>> On 8. Dec 2020, at 21:01, Dirk Kutscher <ietf@dkutscher.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Martin,
>>>
>>>> we wanted to check back with you if it makes sense to coordinate next
>>>> week at IETF 109. It seems as if dinrg is not (yet) listed on the
>>>> agenda?
>>>>
>>>> According to the minutes of IETF 108, the next steps would involve
>>>> coordination/deconflicting with DINRG:
>>>> https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-108-secdispatch#
>>>
>>> thanks for bringing this up and apologies for the late reply.
>>>
>>> We didn't meet around IETF-109.
>>>
>>> This is definitely an interesting topic for DINRG, and we should talk about it at an upcoming meetings.
>>>
>>> We are currently planning upcoming meetings etc., and we should have a more concrete plan for early 2021 activities after new year.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, please feel free to use the mailing list as well.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 2020-10-18 at 15:13 +0200, Schanzenbach, Martin wrote:
>>>>> Dear DINRG,
>>>>>
>>>>> at IETF 104, we have presented to you our work on the GNU Name System
>>>>> [1].
>>>>> Since then, we have been working on improvements and a technical
>>>>> specification of the system [2].
>>>>> At IETF 108, we appeared at secdispatch in order to discuss if the
>>>>> draft may fit into any existing WG in IETF (or IRTF) [3].
>>>>> We were encouraged to ask DINRG if it would be interested in this
>>>>> work and continue improving and working on it (see minutes of
>>>>> secdispatch). Your charter would certainly support the general theme
>>>>> of the protocol: "The evolution of distributed ledger technologies
>>>>> and the platforms that leverage them has given rise to the
>>>>> development of decentralized communication and infrastructure
>>>>> systems, and experiments with the same. Some examples include name
>>>>> resolution (Namecoin, Ethereum Name Service), identity management
>>>>> (OneName), distributed storage (IPFS, MaidSafe), distributed
>>>>> applications, or DApps (Blockstack), and IP address allocation and
>>>>> delegation."
>>>>>
>>>>> Since our appearance at secdispatch, we have received a lot of
>>>>> feedback from the community and experts. We have taken the time to
>>>>> incorporate the feedback and the result is in the current version of
>>>>> the draft as well as our implementation.
>>>>> As you can see, the draft versions 01 and 02 differ significantly.
>>>>> The two major changes regarding the protocol that we have made are:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Improve crypto agility: Allow other zone key types and key
>>>>> derivation schemes and define the required properties.
>>>>> 2. Improve crypto implementation: The used symmetric encryption
>>>>> scheme has been replaced to be more resilient to IND-CCA
>>>>>
>>>>> For (1.) we have drafted an alternative scheme based on Schnorr
>>>>> signatures. This instantiation is still a draft and not implemented.
>>>>> Any feedback here is specifically welcomed and helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, we would be happy to appear at the next IETF and discuss
>>>>> whether DINRG would be a place to continue our work with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best
>>>>> Martin
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/104/slides/slides-104-dinrg-gnu-name-system-00.pdf
>>>>> [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schanzen-gns/
>>>>> [3]
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/agenda/agenda-108-secdispatch-02