Re: [dispatch] Fwd: DISPATCH agenda @ IETF-104

Martin J. Dürst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Wed, 20 March 2019 02:56 UTC

Return-Path: <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BECE01311A5 for <dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:56:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.923
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.923 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=itaoyama.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ebyAFmyTri11 for <dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:56:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from JPN01-OS2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1410107.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.141.107]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9821B130EDB for <dispatch@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:56:08 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=itaoyama.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-it-aoyama-ac-jp; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=kDOy9ETdvzrZ80kijK/Sr5yXIlsV3V3qAvQ+HVxER9M=; b=fVHlFHidZWLimSuZ/FYOUuYcUBZW1vK6oH4C8DUyUJx1Ol9Qv6s9LRBj7KoShwItT7AQLIvFVVwGgyXyhIkzKxVFLQJuq7hMR0XimvrGjxq+ISbthB9ppaH45o5xnM507xoseXXwJqfU89C9dUU5X6IK8FjVNCBdNNftDJh8U18=
Received: from TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (20.179.187.18) by TYAPR01MB3872.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (20.178.138.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1709.14; Wed, 20 Mar 2019 02:56:06 +0000
Received: from TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::98b6:d90e:9ae7:302]) by TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::98b6:d90e:9ae7:302%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1709.015; Wed, 20 Mar 2019 02:56:06 +0000
From: =?utf-8?B?TWFydGluIEouIETDvHJzdA==?= <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
To: Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com>
CC: DISPATCH <dispatch@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dispatch] Fwd: DISPATCH agenda @ IETF-104
Thread-Index: AQHU3sh26DrF0OpPt0y62hjCs4MHwQ==
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 02:56:05 +0000
Message-ID: <3baa9d13-400a-bdda-0eb7-2bb759c4a04b@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
References: <CAHBDyN5s727gS=W2bcRhZJGY_bXMzp6RagnJAnZqM8w1RB7MHQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHBDyN63jzjrh3virjEko8B4oeXNC=bqNZaXz-03L4vKSVnjDw@mail.gmail.com> <a4146a99-f713-a393-aa3f-55c3e764abc0@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <3c9085a4-3348-489b-8a42-545f686c017a@www.fastmail.com> <CAHBDyN7e+6PJOWPXQc3JdU0xpDQy9z1CunrXF2sQ2O84aO3AUg@mail.gmail.com> <CAHBDyN6oN+40aFMcZEoycdFc-f49gxUa-b5vScTOToyxD0ou3g@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHBDyN6oN+40aFMcZEoycdFc-f49gxUa-b5vScTOToyxD0ou3g@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-clientproxiedby: TYCPR01CA0101.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:405:4::17) To TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:404:12e::18)
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp;
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-originating-ip: [133.2.210.64]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 380fbbe4-28cf-42a7-18a9-08d6acdf9893
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(7021145)(8989299)(4534185)(7022145)(4603075)(4627221)(201702281549075)(8990200)(7048125)(7024125)(7025125)(7027125)(7023125)(5600127)(711020)(4605104)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:TYAPR01MB3872;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: TYAPR01MB3872:
x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 4
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <TYAPR01MB38721B50144EB2C887D0F8B2CA410@TYAPR01MB3872.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com>
x-forefront-prvs: 098291215C
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39830400003)(376002)(346002)(396003)(366004)(136003)(53754006)(189003)(199004)(508600001)(85182001)(74482002)(2616005)(66574012)(561944003)(11346002)(6246003)(476003)(6436002)(486006)(6486002)(229853002)(6306002)(5660300002)(99286004)(76176011)(446003)(66066001)(6512007)(53936002)(52116002)(7736002)(305945005)(2906002)(8676002)(81156014)(81166006)(85202003)(31686004)(106356001)(105586002)(86362001)(26005)(8936002)(53546011)(386003)(93886005)(6506007)(786003)(3846002)(68736007)(316002)(4326008)(102836004)(25786009)(6116002)(71200400001)(966005)(71190400001)(14454004)(14444005)(256004)(97736004)(31696002)(6916009)(186003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:TYAPR01MB3872; H:TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:0;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: it.aoyama.ac.jp does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: GCfLr7hhAR3MOaOSOKOmKDTVul6JKPhx9zku7JTtPxNyXJthc5tXke//gJVF5l2eBK5JuFN1+MUrG38R5Ro5JrdTWWKc+kSrROrsWD48s9yRnuo/+VpW6kdZL00o+eTFSf6rfzkcZGOCqptOEBo6HYqSUPX2cF+TMybpyl/MhODPyr5Ufodwev5hHPnowOkShAixriL/Z5zUmge42QvXMhT2M2V+hurRy7wYDedhgBT2nlWQ4KL6AG0Z+ix/aNmwUKGLd07IDwzcxGAbiMPkCq3Dgp3UuhG6POD6CGURIoJzzyVkrdjhGdrk3Xvyx4zdmVt9mezl1xqARsOaxDEwb/dWYvikI1G2vLBNcFsNBwsSuGneBBWhcg8o1xtf0SNIqg7cDV1+VSL0zQ0B8UHunk3cPnKkbrw7gYNU/T6ldcw=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <584FC74577F4B3438CC107454056A1EB@jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: it.aoyama.ac.jp
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 380fbbe4-28cf-42a7-18a9-08d6acdf9893
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Mar 2019 02:56:05.9106 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: e02030e7-4d45-463e-a968-0290e738c18e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: TYAPR01MB3872
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/NLcmi-5vMBaJAizxhzbSvMM-6W8>
Subject: Re: [dispatch] Fwd: DISPATCH agenda @ IETF-104
X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List <dispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:dispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 02:56:11 -0000

Hello Mary,

On 2019/03/20 08:06, Mary Barnes wrote:
> DISPATCH wiki is here and was posted in earlier email messages:
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/dispatch/wiki
> Every WG has such a wiki although few use it.

Yes indeed. In my more than 25 years of IETF involvement (on and off), 
it's probably the first time I have looked at such a wiki. If other WGs 
don't use it, it's difficult to get the hang of it.

Also, if you think the wiki is important, it would be good to add a link 
to the agenda. Currently, the wiki only shows which drafts are up, but 
not timing or presenters.

And it's not really about me or the other Martin, it's also about newcomers.

> It would be super easy to find the documents if authors would actually
> follow the recommendation and include -dispatch in the document name.  It's
> not clear to me why folks can't seem to follow that.  You can find links to
> relevant documents in the threads posted on the wiki.
> 
> We actually haven't routinely sent an email when we've uploaded the
> agenda.   I think I'll not bother doing that next time since I assume
> everyone knows how to find meeting materials and knows how to click links
> to find WG agendas.

First, I don't think everybody does know all these details. And even if 
they know, it's quite a few clicks.

But what's much more important is that if you don't announce that the WG 
agenda is up, nobody except you knows when to go and check out the 
agenda. I think people have better ways to spend their time than 
checking every day whether the agenda is up.

Sending things such as the agenda (or at least an 'agenda is up, it's 
here' signal) to the mailing list can also be seen as part of the 
principle that all WG decisions are confirmed on the mailing list.

Regards,   Martin.


> Regards,
> Mary.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 5:35 PM Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> wrote:
> 
>> I agree with Martin. I don't know how to find these documents. Where is
>> the wiki?
>>
>> The URL is the answer.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 14, 2019, at 16:16, Martin J. Dürst wrote:
>>> Hello everybody,
>>>
>>> On 2019/03/14 02:13, Mary Barnes wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We have uploaded a preliminary agenda for DISPATCH:
>>>
>>> Thanks for putting this together.
>>>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/materials/
>>>
>>> This may be just an oversight, but in general, I very much prefer to
>>> have the agenda (and other, similarly short stuff) inline in my inbox.
>>> That saves me (and everybody else) a click (or two, plus some on-page
>>> search time, this time). Of course it can change later, but we all know
>>> that.
>>>
>>> The actual agenda is at
>>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/agenda-104-dispatch-00..
>>
>>> In the future, precise links would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> The agenda currently reads as follows:
>>>
>>> # Draft Agenda Dispatch @IETF-104 - v1
>>>
>>> DISPATCH Meeting
>>> -------------------
>>>
>>> # Status and agenda bash - Chairs (10 min)
>>>
>>> # Relay User Machine (RUM) - Brian Rosen (20 min)
>>>
>>> # JSON Contact - Bron Gondwana (20 min)
>>>
>>> # Web Packaging - Jeffrey Yasskin (20 min)
>>>
>>> Note: see DISPATCH wiki for additional links to materials
>>>
>>>
>>> ART AREA Meeting
>>> -------------------
>>>
>>> # Bofs and meetings of interest - ADs (5 min)
>>>
>>> # JSON Canonicalization Scheme (JCS) - Anders Rundgren (20)
>>>     Document: draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme
>>>
>>> # AOB
>>>
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mary.
>>>> DISPATCH WG co-chair
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 9:59 AM
>>>> Subject: Topics for DISPATCH @ IETF-104
>>>> To: DISPATCH <dispatch@ietf.org>
>>>> Cc: ART ADs <art-ads@ietf.org>rg>, dispatch chairs <
>> dispatch-chairs@ietf.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The wiki has been updated with the topics that have been agreed to be
>>>> discussed at IETF-104:
>> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/dispatch/wiki/WikiStart
>>>>
>>>> The proposal for moving forward draft-dold-payto is still being
>> discussed
>>>> amongst ADS/chairs as is the JSON Canonicalization that had been
>> proposed
>>>> as a BoF in the SEC Area, but was not approved.
>>>>
>>>> We will post any updates to the wiki and will post an agenda shortly.
>>>>
>>>> As a reminder, if you are submitting drafts for discussion in the
>> dispatch
>>>> working group following the standard convention of including the WG
>> name in
>>>> the draft name (i.e., draft-<name>-dispatch-blah-blah)  makes it *much*
>>>> easier for me as chair to make sure I have the right documents
>> identified
>>>> on the wiki and on the agenda.   The tool will allow you to indicate
>> that
>>>> the document with the new name replaces the document with the old name
>> if
>>>> that's a concern.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mary
>>>> DISPATCH WG co-chair