Re: [dispatch] IETF 118 - do you have something for DISPATCH?

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Mon, 23 October 2023 07:40 UTC

Return-Path: <mnot@mnot.net>
X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD438C14CEFD; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 00:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.805
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.805 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b="KZq6GSCv"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="MpCW+PuY"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hzKe3muVM51K; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 00:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.20]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D203EC14CEFC; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 00:39:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED9F320097D; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:39:53 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:39:54 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t= 1698046793; x=1698133193; bh=f4oNbHEkV8P2Q16wr9QgWoOL01wLIe/AcSx Ni1dtBlw=; b=KZq6GSCvXT6y/7y4j9jJl6dh5JJDhNND6wL5MLws0oc/DCFgAo4 /nvWRM3ZlF4lkSXRZ4KqGj1lRnXbNgdtZnR24LvnP5nGd+9GynzUu7c7XKEVoS1c MwnPP5mq56/h3wye/rXJddFXZ6HfZ33BcgaKTnoTk3IXosHx4217piC5KVZ9n9q5 CmVEZ20Z7jehQWWDs7hSsGO+RWHCvEgl2RVia0ET2zBu3o33JQoJ6kFqAwnd5cA4 XoX1IuWVC6Hs+BjrNipeUWX1v1XnIbLUO8TH0PfMXDpXny4UYNE1aMV1oHdwHkh9 CSmi+FIxRFVwsL+MMWhlGp8J8NfXZfju+xg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1698046793; x=1698133193; bh=f4oNbHEkV8P2Q16wr9QgWoOL01wLIe/AcSx Ni1dtBlw=; b=MpCW+PuY6q4JMFve3s6FkRbnnaDqKPJtsqu9bjfcR7/XQiAPiou t062KZgBl09+sh+6955WDYfWoV1Wj7rqgbxlG1DxjvrcrbaeJD9/o+Dbg2uaE6v+ HvX0DUr79TL8WgJ3vMwZvI8NayP0iCqKfyjtv9c8894NBUOA6406T4mtj5x4WqaG 7fJ5DvV2WnT4In57cCPYj/T1sHWDyztNEJlL/6FBBGK7HlMk1WPtLzZ2Ct93k7Bk ZFOup3NyyUUi/JHYEjmp6maZSotCZvl4CIKy7EV5SNe34yfuNELsaCsY90CRRP90 p+BIKn/z9XoccQ6etXkgoV4KAk8Xn72hMLA==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:SSM2ZbeCPCyXQ5zRxLRHcuByfs1l9cae7nOwGlSSXeaQSfVpBfMp3Q> <xme:SSM2ZRMu3q0meicN2ch1w7IOVRzeLBojZ1qAOyW1nprsAEHPDxgZnAfvYL47fCSms d0Rt2ah0zo9Kdlfvg>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:SSM2ZUgI449qperOztNDV273GV1qgS9JmOeJfVFvg0xdDov4FL39Sdh7kHsvfnpVOK4cLcb9Ce1iqpMFIr1HDxPYJw11PTQmjxAyhjY4tD8q9o-g3SZzKqMu>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrkeehgdduudduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurheptggguffhjgffvefgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeforghr khcupfhothhtihhnghhhrghmuceomhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepvefgveduteehudejhfevieetudejudffjedtieefvdfhieeivefgleelheef ueffnecuffhomhgrihhnpehhthhtphgrnhguihhmrghpshgvmhgrnhhtihgtshdrnhhopd hivghtfhdrohhrghdpfhhirhgvvgihvgdrtghomhdpmhhnohhtrdhnvghtnecuvehluhhs thgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhnohhtsehmnhhoth drnhgvth
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:SSM2Zc-iXpSEvQtjOvEZXsVfdUqpRPwpzr9PeFL5xH2NixRkkPEtFw> <xmx:SSM2ZXsQqQc_UGwlWaTBucmvfK_hfU_LK1M_pYopgXZcb76M6BL9AA> <xmx:SSM2ZbEiFYSG2e9xT7Yz_HWvO82Gm-1a19bQj-UJBozRqriaPBT7CQ> <xmx:SSM2ZRKF8WhomXlqxbI5ThlGTmj6MSyw9yNbOqSJX2Ln6bUx5gv2zw>
Feedback-ID: ie6694242:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.100.2.1.4\))
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <AS1PR07MB86162B208AA31E4D08F30FD598D8A@AS1PR07MB8616.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 18:39:47 +1100
Cc: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" <pengshuping=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "dispatch@ietf.org" <dispatch@ietf.org>, "dispatch-chairs@ietf.org" <dispatch-chairs@ietf.org>, "art-ads@ietf.org" <art-ads@ietf.org>, "tsv-ads@ietf.org" <tsv-ads@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <F7FEC59F-3264-43D2-8F32-DE4412263628@mnot.net>
References: <8866efbb55914ff3b3d2dac9ba52393f@huawei.com> <e7af4a430aeb42deb6f9de857d71b2f2@huawei.com> <258D2726-CF49-4675-8230-9548E2BD3E44@mnot.net> <AS1PR07MB86162B208AA31E4D08F30FD598D8A@AS1PR07MB8616.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
To: Francesca Palombini <francesca.palombini@ericsson.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.100.2.1.4)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ZDYFofsgleC9UNgD_H2BxiFcULs>
Subject: Re: [dispatch] IETF 118 - do you have something for DISPATCH?
X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List <dispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:dispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch>, <mailto:dispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:40:32 -0000

Hi Francesca,

> On 23 Oct 2023, at 6:28 pm, Francesca Palombini <francesca.palombini@ericsson.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark!
>  Sorry for missing your question. DISPATCH at IETF 118 is scoped to just the ART area. As of IETF 118 the WIT area is not yet formed, so everything that used to be ART is still ART.

So, to confirm, nothing is changing during IETF118? 

>  To answer your other questions:
> * Does WITAREA (?) now pertain to both the Web and the Transport-related work, replacing ARTAREA for the ART groups that have moved?
> Yes, it will pertain to the whole area.

There was some pushback from the transport folks on that, which I can understand. Although a lot of work recently has crossed layer abstractions, they still do serve a function -- if I go to a combined area meeting and it spends half of its agenda on congestion control, I'll be similarly disengaged and unhappy as I imagine the transport folks will be at the time consumed talking about HTTP and IMAP semantics.

No offence intended to the congestion control folks, of course...

> * Does TSVWG remain focused on transport, or will it now also include Web-related work?
> As of now, tsvwg is not chartered to do Web-related work. I do not think this needs to change once WIT is formed, but I am open to other opinions, in which case we’ll need to recharter the wg.
>  If WIT will need a dispatch of its own, we will consider charting one (opinions here welcome as well).

I would strongly suggest that we combine SECDISPATCH into DISPATCH and make its scope ART, WIT, and SEC. There is already too much venue shopping / confusion between SECDISPATCH and DISPATCH, and adding a third (which your message implies will be necessary) will only add to the chaos. Getting cross-area review is very healthy at early stages.

Cheers,


>  I hope this answered your questions,
> Francesca
>  From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
> Date: Monday, 23 October 2023 at 08:55
> To: Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) <pengshuping=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Cc: dispatch@ietf.org <dispatch@ietf.org>, dispatch-chairs@ietf.org <dispatch-chairs@ietf.org>, art-ads@ietf.org <art-ads@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [dispatch] IETF 118 - do you have something for DISPATCH?
> Hi Shuping and Jim,
> 
> It's not clear from the IESG's message, and they haven't responded to a request for clarification. Is DISPATCH now (as of 118) scoped to just the ART area, or also to the newly minted WIT area?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> > On 23 Oct 2023, at 5:41 pm, Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) <pengshuping=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,  This is a kind reminder to people who want to present in the dispatch and art area joint session but haven’t sent us request.
> >  Thank you!  Best Regards, Shuping   From: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
> > Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 9:51 AM
> > To: dispatch@ietf.org
> > Cc: dispatch-chairs@ietf.org; art-ads@ietf.org
> > Subject: [dispatch] IETF 118 - do you have something for DISPATCH?
> >  Hi everyone,
> >  It's that time again - we're calling for agenda topics for our next meeting at IETF 118 (4 - 10 Nov 2023). No matter how big or small, if you have something you'd like dispatching or that you think will be of interest to the ART AREA, get in touch and get involved.
> >  If you would like time at the meeting to discuss your work or ideas, please email Jim and me. We're keen to hear from you!
> >  And if you're not really sure what this dispatching thing is for, or if you have any questions about bringing new work, please get in touch with us all the same - we're here to help.
> >  We look forward to hearing from you.
> >  PS. We have updated the DISPATCH WG wiki (https://wiki.ietf.org/group/dispatch) to include more information on how to prepare for attending the session and your presentations in DISPATCH and so on. Hope they are helpful. If you have any suggestions on improving this wiki page and adding more materials, please feel free to email us. Thank you!
> >  Shuping & Jim
> > _______________________________________________
> > dispatch mailing list
> > dispatch@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch
> 
> 
> --
> Mark Nottingham   https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501cfaf3-313273af-454445554331-3ed19f36835cdb1b&q=1&e=ef3531c2-525c-40c6-8724-e7b7b1e561a1&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mnot.net%2F


--
Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/