IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [DNSOP] definitions of "public DNS Service"

George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> Fri, 22 May 2020 04:11 UTC

Return-Path: <ggm@algebras.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C938D3A0E6F for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 May 2020 21:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zfdGsqGlmo0T for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 May 2020 21:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-il1-x131.google.com (mail-il1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA66C3A0E71 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 May 2020 21:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-il1-x131.google.com with SMTP id m6so9442342ilq.7 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 May 2020 21:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=l43F4nGUarXp28++fxW8J0L3sKVfy6KLb7GGx18eyhI=; b=c+qYm0AGyWIzjRNImnH+GMkwXsqqxaue61rEIr69s5ZIHqYFMWLePpjLMk9bOSXG0p PnnbZFAeuI35KU3LD0OCjeGhYQhjNgLr9DVF1w2PF67dvG8e20H7nrBuZ9AeCf3ClIyg 7VM8f9G3b1zYBpTIfsYp++Xa9RO2id3IMRCde4eda3Unq0CTLFxqrx0nH/mZEtDzyK0Q A2U8v5et/cyhL2krSDC8JeXr9KVlCVKDj5IjSshsHoGf/HL3j9aVd3Cr+jRXP90brAOd 57ZGg0aMefE5AahYiEo01JAwXch3RuyYsGmfNculMODKhuI7xFEd0WU7MPPYafXRl29c LV8g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=l43F4nGUarXp28++fxW8J0L3sKVfy6KLb7GGx18eyhI=; b=o2SvDEZwPvFnkJAPeqS02OOYcUcR3+bQABrq/dKG+VcPdpN2gzyQopY/xRFbjVd7nH j+GiKtxvYe6kxjXPwk3DS5Tl7HIsVMeTLY4+mevyeqSUDNdQQiVDmO3Ktt65+L7Ym5RL 6t6ngu77cEZ9wahXtV41rUzJx0+hyw3/DaoX9kMt7pU69VxmLw4Qi0eVhZypBPtCNS4G 68dXTVfFWNZhjF9qUZrGPP4kzO/EcxGWbzjdThjNG7JYFX3B207VdFLKnbPbcDEjICpY 78A/D/EvnZgLkNo77hNoCd+SN0GsNPmBeVzm03GHEQAPnRz2BKo0a7PdymknMJRmshFK 9blg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531YkD7osI2U7bduhCDQVOypssGGF63t44KFCqgKQpqq6IBOVbR7 vWUYVRZz9OKDRDFn6k7f5CyWwMN29ul50APmECZESx3D
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx37IbH81YDC4q4tYxub7mfQbf3vPwrtd1LgHj42DDKyi1c+KQV5sf3JsJTaBgEgltZKSaJsb+7MygNq84FZ8c=
X-Received: by 2002:a92:de09:: with SMTP id x9mr12446391ilm.176.1590120688314; Thu, 21 May 2020 21:11:28 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAKr6gn0Fqk0qNCs5wbptN+rWRBQgBKom4iiudW0V1Xrj3fmE7Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAAObRXLy4ezbCfMDwg=FLEEnf8W8D7=wQ8_0=t3qCq6h6JY38A@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAAObRXLy4ezbCfMDwg=FLEEnf8W8D7=wQ8_0=t3qCq6h6JY38A@mail.gmail.com>
From: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 14:11:16 +1000
Message-ID: <CAKr6gn2d+vjMj+ErjwqBY7XXr-6GMbiaQe2iaa-_kQ2o1Fz6LQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: dnsop WG <dnsop@ietf.org>
Cc: George Kuo <george@apnic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/e-jpJMc39Pz5mAjjmRMgXRLhebg>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] definitions of "public DNS Service"
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 04:11:32 -0000

Thank you all for the responses. This has been very interesting. Paul
actually hinted this was the probable direction, and I think we can
say categorically the dictionary doesn't need updating because there
isn't a sense this concept needs defining in this context within this
WG.

Many thanks

-George (not Kuo. Btw, there are five georges at APNIC. hash
collisions happen all the time)

On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 2:02 PM Davey Song <songlinjian@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> IMHO, public DNS is not a technical jargon which needs a DNS terminology RFC to record (it collects all DNS definition and terms from other DNS RFC).
>
> The term "Public DNS"  or "Public DNS service" belongs to the scope of how people provide and operate DNS services to their best interests. There are many similar terms, such as Cloud DNS,  Dynamic DNS, DNS firewall,  and many DNS-attacking terms. BTW,  I'm happy to see there is a document to define all DNS attacks and mitigation suggestions.
>
> Best regards，
> Davey
>
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 08:56, George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> wrote:
>>
>> My Colleague George Kuo asked me for definitions of public DNS
>> service. not "public DNS" but the trigram "public DNS service"
>>
>> Colloquially we understand this reasonably well. It is in the space of
>> what Google, quad9, CloudFlare and others do. The various clean DNS
>> feeds people subscribe to, it is the functional role of a recursive,
>> but to the public, yet somehow not the bad one of an open DNS resolver
>> being abused to do DDoS: its the conscious service offering of a
>> recursive/cache/forwarder in the public view, a declared intent.
>>
>> A Google search lists (some of) them by name and IP.
>>
>> I asked "Dr Johnson" (Paul Hoffman) why it was not in his dictionary,
>> and he said he is but the humble scribe, and words appear in the
>> dictionary when he is directed.
>>
>> What does the WG feel? The definitions of the "elements" of a public
>> DNS service are of course defined. But not (I feel) the "collected
>> whole" which most definitely exists, out there.
>>
>> (if anyone feels this is adequately defined, please correct me and share a URL)
>>
>> -George
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DNSOP mailing list
>> DNSOP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email