Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-20
Daniel Migault <mglt.ietf@gmail.com> Wed, 13 May 2020 03:26 UTC
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From: Daniel Migault <mglt.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:26:11 -0400
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To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
Cc: draft-ietf-dots-use-cases.all@ietf.org, dots <dots@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-20
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Hi Ben, Thank you for the comments. I merge your pull request and will go through the comments in the email in the next two days. Yours, Daniel On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 4:22 PM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote: > Hi all, > > This one is in pretty good shape -- I don't have any major comments on it. > I did write up some editorial nit-level stuff as a github pull request: > https://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-cases/pull/12 . I think that nothing > there should be controversial, but please let me know if I am wrong about > that. > > Please confirm that all six authors made significant contributions: I > will need to defend this to the rest of the IESG, since per RFC 7322 the > author count is generally limited to five individuals. Right now I don't > have a good response when someone asks. > > Section 1 > > As DDoS solutions are broadly heterogeneous among vendors, the > primary goal of DOTS is to provide high-level interaction amongst > differing DDoS solutions, such as detecting, initiating, terminating > DDoS mitigation assistance or requesting the status of a DDoS > mitigation. > > nit: the list structure is not properly parallel. It looks like the > various clauses are meant to be "detecting DDoS", > "initiating/terminating mitigation assistance", and "requesting > mitigation status", so maybe this could become: > > % As DDoS solutions are broadly heterogeneous among vendors, the > % primary goal of DOTS is to provide high-level interaction amongst > % differing DDoS solutions, such as detecting DDoS attacks, > % initiating/terminating DDoS mitigation assistance, or requesting the > % status of a DDoS mitigation. > > Section 3.1 > > Over the course of the attack, the DOTS server of the ITP > periodically informs the DOTS client on the enterprise DMS mitigation > status, statistics related to DDoS attack traffic mitigation, and > related information. Once the DDoS attack has ended, or decreased to > the certain level that the enterprise DMS can handle by itself, the > DOTS server signals the enterprise DMS DOTS client that the attack > has subsided. > > It's interesting that this is worded in such a way that the (ITP) DOTS > server knows the specific threshold for what level of attack traffic the > enterprise DMS can handle, since it's the DOTS server signalling to the > client that "the attack has subsided". > > Section 3.3 > > Upon receipt of the DOTS mitigation request from the DDoS telemetry > system, the orchestrator DOTS server responds with an acknowledgment, > to avoid retransmission of the request for mitigation. The > orchestrator may begin collecting additional fine-grained and > specific information from various DDoS telemetry systems in order to > correlate the measurements and provide an analysis of the event. > Eventually, the orchestrator may ask for additional information from > the DDoS telemetry system; however, the collection of this > information is out of scope. > > The last sentence seems to say that how the orchestrator gets data from > the initial DOTS client telemtry system is out-of-scope, but the > previous sentence talks about the orchestrator collecting information > from (other) DOTS telemetry systems. Is that similarly out of scope? > If so, then the fact that they are specifically *DOTS* telemetry systems > seems irrelevant and we should probably just describe them as generic > telemetry or monitoring systems. > > Upon receiving a request to mitigate a DDoS attack performed over a > target, the orchestrator may evaluate the volumetry of the attack as > > nit(?): is "performed over" a conventional usage? I would have expected > something more like "aimed at" given my personal background, but could > just be ignorant of typical usage. > > Also, I think "volumetry" is not the right word here, and just "volume" > suffices. > > filter the traffic. In this case, the DDoS mitigation system > implements a DOTS client while the orchestrator implements a DOTS > server. Similar to other DOTS use cases, the offloading scenario > assumes that some validation checks are followed by the DMS, the > orchestrator, or both (e.g., avoid exhausting the resources of the > forwarding nodes or disrupting the service). These validation checks > are part of the mitigation, and are therefore out of the scope of the > document. > > I know we added this last chunk of text after a long exchange during the > last WGLC, and understand the desire to avoid going into too many > details on a topic that is mostly out of scope for DOTS. That said, I'd > suggest adding a couple more words around "disrupting the service" > (especially since some level of service disruption during an attack > might be expected!) to help the reader make the link to what kind of > validation is expected, perhaps something like "inadvertent disruption > of legitimate services". > > Section 4 > > In light of my previous comment I don't want to go too far here, but I > could see it being relevant to have a note that in the "orchestration" > case it's possible for something that locally to one telemetry system > looks like an attack is not actually an attack when seen from the > broader scope (e.g., of the orchestrator). > > In the Third Party MSP case we mention BGP as a way to steer traffic to > the mitigation service. We could consider (but don't have to) > mentioning that efforts to secure BGP will need to be considered when > making pre-arrangements for how traffic is to be moved, since in some > contexts such BGP announcements could themselves be considered to be an > attack. > > I guess it probably goes without saying that when you add a third-party > DMS to your setup, you depend on that third party to be operational in > order for your setup to work properly. > > Section 7 > > We'll probably get someone asking to move RFC 8612 to be a Normative > reference since we use it for terminology, but I don't mind leaving it > be for now. > > Thanks, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > -- Daniel Migault Ericsson
- [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-cases… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… Daniel Migault
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… Daniel Migault
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… Teague, Francis
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… Daniel Migault
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… kaname nishizuka
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… Jon Shallow
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… Daniel Migault
- Re: [Dots] AD evaluation of draft-ietf-dots-use-c… Daniel Migault