Re: [earlywarning] (no subject)

[Kepeng Li <[e-mail]>]

I agree that we should not exclude the wireless device connected to the
Internet.

 

Whether or not to have a standard in IETF for internet is another issue.

 

Kepeng

·¢¼þÈË: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
´ú±í Brian Rosen
·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: 2010Äê3ÔÂ25ÈÕ 17:59
ÊÕ¼þÈË: SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW); DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW);
[e-mail]; [e-mail]
Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [earlywarning] (no subject)

 

I think this is silly.

No one is working on alert mechanisms that apply to the Internet.

The Internet is global, ubiquitous and independent of L2.  The proposed work
applies to any kind of device connected to the Internet.  Whatever scale
problems exist apply to all L2s one way or another.  They must be faced and
solved for the work to be useful.  To exclude wireless IMS systems based on
the notion that someone else is working on a system limited to cell
broadcast is, in my opinion, not a good idea.

I do well understand that vendors and carriers don¡¯t like multiple answers
to the same problem.  I get that.  However, the IETF is the proper place to
do work on alerts on the Internet, and should not exclude parts of the
Internet.

Brian


On 3/25/10 8:50 PM, "SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW)" <[e-mail]> wrote:

I propose that the following sentence be added to the ATOCA charter:

The ATOCA RFC's are not applicable to wireless devices which receive their
connectivity via 3GPP EPC/IMS.



<---------------------------> 
DeWayne Sennett, AT&T Services, Inc. 
Sent from my BlackBerry

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From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]> 
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>;
[e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
<[e-mail]> 
Sent: Thu Mar 25 17:43:10 2010
Subject: Re: [earlywarning] (no subject) 

Keith

You bring up a good point - we don't want to design a solution that will
result in failure of the network, therefore I second DeWayne's proposal to
exclude from the charter devices that support PWS (and CMAS under that
umbrella) and to acknowledge this solution may result in network problems
(e.g. Congestion).

Brian Daly 
Brian K. Daly 
------- 
Sent from my Blackberry

  _____  

From: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) <[e-mail]> 
To: Brian Rosen <[e-mail]>; DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW);
[e-mail] <[e-mail]> 
Sent: Thu Mar 25 17:35:30 2010
Subject: RE: [earlywarning] (no subject) 

Yes those cellphones could well be connected to the internet.

But cell broadcast service exists on 3GPP phones. For alerts that are
intended to hit a large proportion of the phones in any cell, it makes best
use of the bandwidth.

You bring up an IP connection to all cellphones in that cell, and then
broadcast warnings to all those cells, and the net result will be
inappropriate loading of cells specifically for this traffic. Given that
such warnings may otherwise create network stress as a result of the public
warning being made in the first place, the first point of call for getting
such warnings to cellphone uses has to be cell broadcast.

It appears that many governmental organisations have accepted cell broadcast
as the desired means of delivering public warnings to cellphones.

Therefore any IETF activity has to acknowledge that solution exists for
cellphones. 

Further I believe that any IETF solution has to specifically NOT convey the
impression that for cellphones, the IETF solution is a good way forward for
the warning itself. Users could well find the warnings from the IETF
solution to an IP endpoint delivered well after the cell broadcast warning.
And certainly the IETF solution should not expect priority over other types
of traffic at that point, because at cell broadcast channel already exists
to give that priority for the appropriate type of traffic.

regards

Keith


 

  _____  

From: [e-mail]  [mailto:[e-mail]]
On Behalf Of Brian  Rosen
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 12:00 AM
To: DALY,  BRIAN K (ATTCINW); [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [earlywarning]  (no subject)

 
Are they connected to the Internet?

If they  are, it would apply.  If they aren¡¯t, then it wouldn¡¯t  apply.

Brian


On 3/25/10 7:51 PM, "DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)"  <[e-mail]>  wrote:

 

That will not apply to devices  connected to wireless cellular  networks.
 

From: Brian Rosen [mailto:[e-mail]]  
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 4:50 PM
To: DALY, BRIAN  K (ATTCINW); [e-mail]
Subject:  Re: [earlywarning] (no subject)

Once  again, this is NOT about a solution limited to wireless cellular
networks.   It is about a solution for internet connected endpoints of all
kinds.   

Brian


On 3/25/10 7:46 PM, "DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)"  <[e-mail]> wrote:
Keith ¨C We  agree with you, and to further the point, in wireless cellular
IP networks a  point to point solution would be problematic. Cell Broadcast
is used for  CMAS because SMS cannot be used for any real time alerting ¨C
it was not  designed for that application and has serious limitations, as
the FCC CMSAAC  studied.
 
When it comes to the evolved packet core and IMS,  again a point to point
solution  will cause significant congestion on  the network and a
broadcast/multicast solution must be used to effectively  deliver alert
messages. Thus things like location and ¡°priority¡± are already  handled in
the delivery network.
 
ATIS and 3GPP will be studying  how to support multimedia alerts in the
future, as recommended by the FCC  CMSAAC. This is all beyond the scope of
this work  effort.
 
Regards,
Brian
 
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 03:13:24 +0100
From:  "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Re: [earlywarning] Updated Charter Text for ATOCA
To: Hannes Tschofenig  <[e-mail]>,
      "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Message-ID:
 
<[e-mail]-lucent
.com>
      
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
What I am not seeing here is any  separation of the problem from the one
that cell broadcast attempts to  solve. Fundamentally, cell broadcast, as
exists on all GSM, UTRAN and  E-UTRAN based cell phones and is being used
for Tsunami warning and Public  Warning, exists and is not going to
substantially change. The major  limitation here is is length of message,
and what does get transmitted will  be very much dependent on that
restriction.
 
Moreover I have  heard from a number of governmental bodies that they are
happy with that  situation and are not envisaging further standardisation in
that area  outside of 3GPP.
 
So my view at the moment is that there is no  point in IETF trying to
address the scope of what is already specified in  cell broadcast (from base
station to end  mobile).
 
regards
 
Keith

    

 

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