Re: [homenet] [Anima] ANIMA scope + homenet interaction + charter v15

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 31 October 2014 19:25 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DB21A0120; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c-24cqODRs_E; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:25:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pa0-x236.google.com (mail-pa0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C84D1A1A4B; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:25:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id rd3so8351488pab.13 for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:25:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XXQZgEih75MfcdsOfv1ii4Qv6v4KKVgouFGH/it3M9M=; b=yVKxjvFIihJMEfojBe8/cRV7bRmIT7LtN8B7yGlP0TQKJ8WjOqmWHfOQNhBl5oASvK lO0jxIBzMunvOjLfEiMVXUaKwJYwBn5TNKXN6khzuvVuP+J7a1/J19ovqqJf/A6BDiJX XG0KQ7JX0kX9UabriLMLVaCWIaJDDCnvdEhNz5wj12gk0FKTSbn0gKN2z4/O/1swW33n D3+PzEcPaGyFe9VcrnAy7czc3OctX/6SZ7iaetd45WfzZPDTR+2hq0xGAXEpdN8PHh4f uuNM/ZgLnLLp6BB94xd0BPmg5CeeG7sHiFrE1e/8vRhk071lvqpI8GnyjGUbXQCT3/Jn 9uqw==
X-Received: by 10.70.89.101 with SMTP id bn5mr12767433pdb.134.1414783552775; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:25:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.178.23] (247.200.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.200.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id g2sm10622598pdk.46.2014.10.31.12.25.48 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:25:51 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <5453E246.9000705@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 08:25:58 +1300
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
References: <544FF8FC.5090103@cisco.com> <95338658-B4F2-4634-AC7B-7B893C4DEF2E@iki.fi> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AF6C46E@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <DEB8F897-3CED-4C59-BEBF-BF64096282F2@fugue.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AF6C7AE@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com>, <8490A544-45A9-45D2-9C98-D3CBEB28651D@fugue.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AF6C8A9@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <E597E398-6AFB-4355-B2C4-8559D19A6AF0@fugue.com>
In-Reply-To: <E597E398-6AFB-4355-B2C4-8559D19A6AF0@fugue.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/7pl1JZDvubzr9LKbFENrCHO9vHM
Cc: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>, Markus Stenberg <markus.stenberg@iki.fi>, "anima@ietf.org" <anima@ietf.org>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [homenet] [Anima] ANIMA scope + homenet interaction + charter v15
X-BeenThere: homenet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <homenet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/homenet/>
List-Post: <mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:25:55 -0000

On 01/11/2014 04:47, Ted Lemon wrote:
> On Oct 31, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com> wrote:
>> The current general mechanism are too general to work for the use case of hierarchical prefix delegation. But if we add hierarchical topology and no bypass requests as constraint conditions, we may be able to make hierarchical prefix delegation work.
> 
> No, that is not the point I am making.   The point I am making is that hierarchical delegation simply won't work, no matter what mechanism you put in place to do it, because the network has to be able to grow incrementally.   With that as a base assumption, you cannot predict where the network will grow, so you don't know how to construct the hierarchy.   Once the hierarchy is constructed, you would have to renumber on a regular basis to make hierarchical delegation work.   I think it is preferable to simply allow for a complete routing table, and then try as best as possible to make routing hierarchical, without demanding perfection.

Well yes. That's exactly why in autonomic management of prefixes,
we need peer to peer negotiation, as in "I need 3 /64s that I
don't have, do you have any spare ones for me?" Maybe it's
badly explained but that is the whole point of our use case.

   Brian