Re: Structured Headers: URI type (#782)

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Thu, 13 June 2019 09:20 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3714B120169 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 02:20:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=S6WYCMuu; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=QNUtlk3M
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0olyHk5OKQS1 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 02:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [IPv6:2603:400a:ffff:804:801e:34:0:38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85B171200D8 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 02:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1hbLtF-00073V-5Q for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 09:19:25 +0000
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 09:19:25 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1hbLtF-00073V-5Q@frink.w3.org>
Received: from mimas.w3.org ([2603:400a:ffff:804:801e:34:0:4f]) by frink.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1hbLtC-00070u-6V for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 09:19:22 +0000
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]) by mimas.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1hbLtA-00019v-J3 for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 09:19:22 +0000
Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A02F796; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 05:18:57 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 13 Jun 2019 05:18:57 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm2; bh=C lEMsVA+nQtAwmdvspRuhjUYy+NST9Kqzezyxf9DuZ0=; b=S6WYCMuuYE7OLQeoX GNI5zcR2rGkfyAlRJ/4DU7IObu7DvCBFUlJQ3S3vzAVj9lEzaiowGIrPabuc2xmR PH+jo6XESRljxmhsLZR9usWlQX9JaofnQh7Q8lj0dIx6VDDQW3X6Qp2A3LX7PUv7 HPt/IPVxc6RzbDFY6Ilpq+Endb7EX/72S8NvHFWUcexQPWiCneB5ZSdWN3ZCQgZ7 nHylluIaPghwE8mVu84qqyWky6lYibUCLL/N3sk0zHe6aQTfNchPZa975gCXssLo sfn65awC7rjhBnMD9AVWG88Idu7PQ/1RFtATKtJ8Ej2fZQY5ZALUHKkFMq9a2D66 wxvAA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=ClEMsVA+nQtAwmdvspRuhjUYy+NST9Kqzezyxf9Du Z0=; b=QNUtlk3MZCUL3AHiangn2wEnzOWmlmVvRwxOceqqUGZBpH+JMpcGqgR+q ymsdA4SIoLF9zsNSWJp8x7gIVpbghQxIF15pNCnOIV17oSlS/Ti4fbPpkK1HT1ku vIFpTxhruvfvRvqlBjfiJa0vnkvTjtIZpHonsmk6QvgckID096AJYP1AnQkyqUHQ pronVH1+3pO40k0y0qXnjOCae0qlssgrYN3oMFXfUzTdCBgrdFM9bFkDMVKGX65o igS4hdhzf37qF7OyTo5Ziu/AXIRp0ZgXOvzzJuQnn1sbfMP9iXimzMC8TuOKRzEK KDz8LWkZhk3DEBKEcj3Udw2YMVlig==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:ABUCXbdCy0Ec2eY42h8NvpI8l9pzBEb3RxDqXX6lkMH5DrMFBbBZCg>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrudehledgudefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurheptggguffhjgffgffkfhfvofesthhqmhdthhdtvdenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhk ucfpohhtthhinhhghhgrmhcuoehmnhhothesmhhnohhtrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinh epmhhnohhtrdhnvghtnecukfhppedugeegrddufeeirddujeehrddvkeenucfrrghrrghm pehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvthenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedt
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:ABUCXQMzuVR9hliyqIyZlOnvXPp1oUW4qxXJgDjHvp0ZN5A92mrvWQ> <xmx:ABUCXcwBGkc8aadh7KMMYfD3TZCJyMBLUEbFPAZWCna-F5QMbgpb9w> <xmx:ABUCXZUhMlk5j11KbSPNclLI5v1Ye77e-lc9p1DUtx1A3PGGF2VaDg> <xmx:ARUCXRhwizQ08mIxSdRrCfmR6To_fYDmE8dBApZ7uWV1fa8uS2xD0Q>
Received: from [192.168.7.11] (unknown [144.136.175.28]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 79584380086; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 05:18:54 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\))
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <f8069ff4-2d32-79ce-534b-c39ad19a50fe@gmx.de>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 19:18:50 +1000
Cc: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>, "ietf-http-wg@w3.org Group" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <BF8128B6-30C1-4D12-8B91-E5C8AEC7063B@mnot.net>
References: <31F60C8F-907A-44C4-B98E-3F49249A40B8@mnot.net> <84525629-553D-4D42-9FD4-36DD995710CA@apple.com> <B556DE53-9409-47CC-BB69-C38FFD973F1A@mnot.net> <8e82a039-adaf-8542-a8b5-ab76a5653797@gmx.de> <BCF9767B-4467-4789-A9A4-E6078B7474A8@mnot.net> <f8069ff4-2d32-79ce-534b-c39ad19a50fe@gmx.de>
To: "Julian F. Reschke" <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11)
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.24; envelope-from=mnot@mnot.net; helo=wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.4
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=3.450, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_DB=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_IRR=-3, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: mimas.w3.org 1hbLtA-00019v-J3 3c4128a1397d6dc0d6ab51c14c1595ca
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Structured Headers: URI type (#782)
Archived-At: <https://www.w3.org/mid/BF8128B6-30C1-4D12-8B91-E5C8AEC7063B@mnot.net>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/36714
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <https://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>


> On 13 Jun 2019, at 7:16 pm, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> On 13.06.2019 11:09, Mark Nottingham wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 13 Jun 2019, at 7:06 pm, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 13.06.2019 10:46, Mark Nottingham wrote:
>>>> Again, I hope we're not voting.
>>> 
>>> No, we are not.
>>> 
>>>> My argument: given that the whole point of SH is to have strongly interoperable, crisply defined data models, and that anything beyond "it's a string" is a minefield regarding URIs, the prudent thing to do here is to punt on this until we're more confident. It's entirely possible to do this in a future revision / extension, and we really need to ship this spec.
>>> 
>>> I'm not convinced that adding things later will work well.
>> 
>> Can you explain why?
> 
> My impression is that we'd see exactly the same pusback for an extension
> spec (or a revision).

If it's not well-defined, and likely to cause interop problems (as is the case now), yes. 

If we figure out a good way to do it, why would there be?

> 
>>> I also note
>>> that if we really need to ship this spec, we should try harder to finish
>>> it (this thread started four weeks ago).
>> 
>> I've been ready to close these issues for all of that time.
>> 
>>> Finally, I still think that allowing to map complex fields like "Link"
>>> to this syntax would be good in that it would encourage people to (a)
>>> include the generic SH parser and (b) actually use if for "Link".
>> 
>> That could be said for many headers, it's not clear why Link is special here (and it's the only existing header that would *potentially* be compatible with this; it's not at all clear that the error handling around Link would allow its use).
> 
> Link isn't special; it just happens to be a header field with relatively
> complex syntax.
> 
> You mention error handling: do you have something specific in mind?

SH has defined, draconian error handling; Link has none, so we'd have to see what deployed parsers do.



--
Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/